Archive for the ‘Transcripts’ Category


Protecting Intellectual Property- Q&A session hosted by Cybergrrl Oh

January 8, 2008

This Q&A, hosted by Cybergrrl Oh with answers provided by RL lawyer AlanBehr Blackburn, covered the topic of protecting intellectual rights in Second Life. Please be sure to check out the SL Entrepreneur’s Club website for more info on this and other interesting tidbits on doing business in Second Life!

[12:14] Fleep Tuque: So under the ToS, what are our obligations to Linden Lab?
[12:14] AlanBehr Blackburn: Okay. If there is a run on a bank, that’s a good reason to go to the bank. We’ve all seen It’s a Wonderful Life, right?
[12:15] AlanBehr Blackburn: Pls take a seat.
[12:15] AlanBehr Blackburn: Writers? Go w/that 1st?
[12:15] IYan Writer: well, the Writers are in a majority here 🙂
[12:15] dandellion Kimban nods
[12:15] AlanBehr Blackburn: Okay. I’m a writer as well. I write for the legal press, pop press & a “hight” culture website.
[12:16] AlanBehr Blackburn: Writing falls under copyright.
[12:16] AlanBehr Blackburn: You own your unique expression of an idea, not the idea itself.
[12:16] AlanBehr Blackburn: The idea of a son who comes home from college and finds his mom has married his uncle–not copyrightable.
[12:16] AlanBehr Blackburn: But the unique words in “Hamlet” are.
[12:16] Leslye Writer: how do we prove that the unique expression of the idea is ours.
[12:17] AlanBehr Blackburn: Your best proof is a copyright registration, at least in the USA.
[12:17] AlanBehr Blackburn: And they are cheap to get, $45 (real $), and you don’t need a lawyer, most times.
[12:17] LifeFactory Writer: What I would like most to know is if there is a standard format of Rights Release and contract that is popularly in use in SL right now? Or are most things still hinging on this ephermeral and risky notion of “trust?”
[12:17] Cybergrrl Oh: What about our international residents?
[12:18] AlanBehr Blackburn: In order:
[12:18] Cybergrrl Oh: Alan – I’m copying all questions if you need a cue. Just ask.
[12:18] Leslye Writer: So if we copyright and register our work in real life it is protected here? What of the notecard that is given out which must be coopyable to give out? Does that release the coopyright protection
[12:18] AlanBehr Blackburn: I’m not aware of a standard form. The TOS lets Linden use what it likes for most necessary purposes.
[12:18] AlanBehr Blackburn: As for other people: you can trust whom you like, but I like copyright registrations.
[12:18] AlanBehr Blackburn: International:
[12:19] Cybergrrl Oh: Let’s give Alan a moment to address the outstanding questions. We’re all excited about this, as you can see!
[12:19] AlanBehr Blackburn: Other nations generally do NOT register copyrights.
[12:19] Kay Levasseur: and what about the TOS? Do they or can they negate ‘copyright’ in any way?
[12:19] Leslye Writer: \mine is a followup to the first answer
[12:19] AlanBehr Blackburn: But they tend to be more pro-author. Germany is a good exmaple. (I’m German.)
[12:19] AlanBehr Blackburn: Trying to keep in order here, one sec.
[12:19] IYan Writer: do the modify/copy/transfer attributes automatically serve as some form of implied release?
[12:20] LifeFactory Writer: That is a great question, Iyan.
[12:20] AlanBehr Blackburn: TOS negating copyright:
[12:20] Leslye Writer: good question IYan
[12:20] AlanBehr Blackburn: Not really an issue right now.
[12:20] AlanBehr Blackburn: The TOS doc says that you keep your copyright.
[12:20] LifeFactory Writer: so….
[12:20] AlanBehr Blackburn: In theory, game TOS can state that anything in game belongs to the game publisher.
[12:20] AlanBehr Blackburn: And in fact, that’s how it is in most games.
[12:21] Cybergrrl Oh: But this one doesn’t? Why is that?
[12:21] AlanBehr Blackburn: I’ve been at a couple State of Play conferences–real world.
[12:21] AlanBehr Blackburn: And the Linden CEO and others were there.
[12:21] AlanBehr Blackburn: Linden has always taken a very pro-player approach when it comes to copyiright.
[12:22] IYan Writer smiles at Alanagh
[12:22] Leslye Writer: so they won’t take the words. How about other people, players
[12:22] LifeFactory Writer: Hello Alanagh 🙂
[12:22] Alanagh Recreant: / apologies for being late… had to look in on zebras
[12:22] Cybergrrl Oh: I think that is a good issue Leslye – I’ve been “ripped off” by other residnets, not LL
[12:22] AlanBehr Blackburn: Legally, the avatar is simply the real person going undre a nickname, at least for these purposes.
[12:22] AlanBehr Blackburn: So if someone takes your unique expression–words that you write, it may have been an avatar that did it.
[12:23] AlanBehr Blackburn: But a real person is behind it and is using the words you wrote.
[12:23] AlanBehr Blackburn: If you claim copyright in the words, you arguably have a claim.
[12:23] AlanBehr Blackburn: The quesion is what to do about it and where.
[12:23] Cybergrrl Oh: What is our recourse? Particularly since this is a global venue and someone may be in another country?
[12:23] AlanBehr Blackburn: At State of Play II, I argued in favor of ingame resolution.
[12:23] Cybergrrl Oh is not picking on her international friends.
[12:23] Cybergrrl Oh: 😉
[12:24] AlanBehr Blackburn: Good question.
[12:24] Alanagh Recreant smiles… best not
[12:24] Cybergrrl Oh: ingame resolution – interesting
[12:24] Leslye Writer: and if there is some way for you to lose that protection by an action of yours here in sl such as making it copyable
[12:24] AlanBehr Blackburn: Most things are copyable, but if you make it clear that copying is not permitted without payment, that should be enough to preserve your rights.
[12:25] Fleep Tuque: Scenario: A group of people are sitting around talking about having an event, I say, “lets call the event Fleeps Great Event!” Everyone says great idea! I make up signs, register a website, we hold the event. A year later, a subset of that group wants to hold the same event and call it Fleep’s Great Event 2. Is that name copyrightable?
[12:25] Cybergrrl Oh: Good question again Leslye – here in SL, we tend to create things that are we give permissions to copy – even with payment. If we do that, do we lose rights?
[12:25] AlanBehr Blackburn: The interntional issue also relates to ingame reolution.
[12:25] AlanBehr Blackburn: You can’t copyright names.
[12:25] Fleep Tuque: Ok
[12:25] AlanBehr Blackburn: Book titles are not copyrightable.
[12:25] AlanBehr Blackburn: However, a videogame title can be a trademark–because it brands a product.
[12:25] AlanBehr Blackburn: That’s different from a copyright.
[12:25] Fleep Tuque: Ahh traddemark.
[12:25] Cybergrrl Oh: But can you trademark logos and names of an event series?
[12:25] Fleep Tuque: Right.
[12:25] AlanBehr Blackburn: You can have several books with the same title.
[12:26] Cybergrrl Oh: like the Dummies series
[12:26] Alanagh Recreant: AlanBehr… but you can ‘namemark’ them, right?
[12:26] AlanBehr Blackburn: And Cybergirl is right: you can make a series of books and get a trademark in that title.
[12:26] Alanagh Recreant: / that is common practice here at least
[12:26] AlanBehr Blackburn: I wrote an article about that a long time ago.
[12:27] AlanBehr Blackburn: Copyright: a Haiku is enough expression to copyright.
[12:27] AlanBehr Blackburn: Not the title, but the poetry within it.
[12:27] Cybergrrl Oh: What about a series of events? Seems much more intangible, however, aren’t events like the Superbowl and other recurring events trademarkable?
[12:27] Alanagh Recreant: / so ‘Fleep Tuque’ can be trademarked right?
[12:27] AlanBehr Blackburn: Events: hard to get any protection.
[12:27] Alanagh Recreant: hehe
[12:28] AlanBehr Blackburn: Superbowl: you’ve probably got a trademark in that term as a mark for a football game.
[12:28] AlanBehr Blackburn: The NFL has its own trademarks, as does each team.
[12:28] Fleep Tuque: Hehe
[12:28] Cybergrrl Oh: So some of the other questions we haven’t addressed…
[12:28] Kay Levasseur: yes Superbowl is trademarked, as are the team names
[12:28] Cybergrrl Oh: Patents
[12:28] AlanBehr Blackburn: And the players, represented by their uniion, have their own rights.
[12:28] Cybergrrl Oh: Contracts with other residents
[12:28] Cybergrrl Oh: just a reminder – keep going where you’re going
[12:28] AlanBehr Blackburn: Patents: not a likely concern in game at least for the present.
[12:29] Cybergrrl Oh: What about inventions of new technologies that can be used inworld?
[12:29] AlanBehr Blackburn: It’s about invention. And most of what people do here is content.
[12:29] Cybergrrl Oh: the tools, for example?
[12:29] Cybergrrl Oh: Actually, many of them build, script, program, invent
[12:29] Cybergrrl Oh: as well
[12:29] AlanBehr Blackburn: If you invent something that can be used in the real world and debut it here, that’s a bad idea.
[12:29] Fleep Tuque: Oh??
[12:29] Fleep Tuque: Why?
[12:29] AlanBehr Blackburn: You might accidentally compromise your ability to get a patent on it.
[12:29] Fleep Tuque: Doh.
[12:29] Cybergrrl Oh: really??
[12:29] Fleep Tuque: Really???
[12:29] Leslye Writer: interesting
[12:29] Alanagh Recreant smiles
[12:29] IYan Writer: extremely interesting
[12:30] Fleep Tuque: I know many companies interested in epxloring SL as a prototyping platform
[12:30] Fleep Tuque: that would be pretty chilling on that front.
[12:30] AlanBehr Blackburn: The rultes are less stricted now, but basically, for patent: don’t tell anyone who doesn’t need to know until you have something to register.
[12:30] AlanBehr Blackburn: You can’t really prototype many real world things in a game. A game could be used for test marketing–but that’s branding, not invention.
[12:30] Fleep Tuque: Ahh, you mean if you talk about demo and show it here. What it you just develop it in world, your own private island for example
[12:30] Cybergrrl Oh: what about prototyping in SL?
[12:31] AlanBehr Blackburn: In theory, you could show the effect of a real world invention in a game without disclosing the tech that does it.
[12:31] AlanBehr Blackburn: That could workd.
[12:31] Fleep Tuque: Er, no there are actually many manufacturing companies looking to prototype models here
[12:31] Fleep Tuque: Cars shoes manufacturing processes
[12:31] LifeFactory Writer: May I add a Q to the list….what is the protocol for filmming in SL. Does one need a release from teh creator of every single skin,object, prop, etc…or just the big builds? What about shooting Linden builds? Sorry this is not in context of the current chat.
[12:31] AlanBehr Blackburn: But you won’t see the real gizmos that make the thins work, I presume, just the expected effect–such as the teleporter that has our friend flying over us. High. Love the outfit.
[12:32] Fleep Tuque: Well, I don’t know. We are writing conversion software at UC that would take industrial design models and convert them to Sl prims
[12:32] Cybergrrl Oh: LifeFactory added a new question.
[12:32] Fleep Tuque: so, yes, it would be models of the specific parts.
[12:32] AlanBehr Blackburn: Software:
[12:33] AlanBehr Blackburn: The unique code is protectable by copyirght.
[12:33] Fleep Tuque: But that’s an interesting point, thanks for the info.
[12:33] Cybergrrl Oh: and we’re still curious about contracts with residents – needed? possible? enforceable?
[12:33] AlanBehr Blackburn: Some software is also utility, and therefore can be involved in patents.
[12:33] AlanBehr Blackburn: Contracts with residents:
[12:33] AlanBehr Blackburn: Possibly enforceable.
[12:33] AlanBehr Blackburn: You would need to have a written record, I’d suggest, which is possible.
[12:34] AlanBehr Blackburn: YOu need offer and acceptance and a recitation of the terms.
[12:34] Alanagh Recreant: / lets have a possibly enforcable contract CG 😛
[12:34] IYan Writer: written in RL, I presume?
[12:34] Cybergrrl Oh: lol
[12:34] Alanagh Recreant: hehe
[12:34] Fleep Tuque: Safer to do through email or some external source, according to others I’ve consulted.
[12:34] Alanagh Recreant: / sorry… its late here
[12:34] Cybergrrl Oh: and is it better to email versus transfering a notecard inworld?
[12:34] AlanBehr Blackburn: There has to be something of value going in both directions, which is usually easy to show.
[12:34] Fleep Tuque: Not an inworld only noitecards.
[12:34] Cybergrrl Oh and Fleep – mind meld
[12:34] Fleep Tuque: grin
[12:34] AlanBehr Blackburn: A fixed record is what is best. However you do it, as long as it shows agreement.
[12:35] AlanBehr Blackburn: It is theorically possible for the avatar to sign for the human.
[12:35] Cybergrrl Oh: What if you have mostly one-sided communications? My emails to the other party defining things?
[12:35] Fleep Tuque: Hm, interesting@!
[12:35] AlanBehr Blackburn: Because the avatar is a nickname, as noted before.
[12:35] Cybergrrl Oh: aha
[12:35] AlanBehr Blackburn: Of course, how do you enforce, if you’re not entirely sure whom you are contracting with–who is behind the avatar?
[12:36] Cybergrrl Oh: meaning they sign their avatar name and do NOT have to sign their human name?
[12:36] dandellion Kimban: does that mean that let’s say, dandellion Kimban is a name valid as my human’s name? in legal sense?
[12:36] AlanBehr Blackburn: I’d suggest that the confirmation is done witih a human name/address.
[12:36] AlanBehr Blackburn: You can sign contracts with an “x,” but it isn’t a good idea.
[12:37] Cybergrrl Oh: segwaying from contracts to releases
[12:37] Cybergrrl Oh: from LifeFactory
[12:37] Cybergrrl Oh: what is the protocol for filmming in SL. Does one need a release from teh creator of every single skin,object, prop, etc…or just the big builds? What about shooting Linden builds? Sorry this is not in context of the current chat.
[12:37] AlanBehr Blackburn: Spending money on lawyers is the result of doing things less than optimally. I won’t frighten you with the cost of that!
[12:37] Cybergrrl Oh: lol
[12:37] Cybergrrl Oh: $$$$$$$$
[12:37] AlanBehr Blackburn: in game filming.
[12:37] Alanagh Recreant: personally… I think it is as simple as signing both names 🙂
[12:37] AlanBehr Blackburn: Again, it’s a TOS question.
[12:37] AlanBehr Blackburn: both names, okay.
[12:38] AlanBehr Blackburn: In game filming: what would film be used for?
[12:38] Alanagh Recreant: leaves no scope for 2nd guessing that way
[12:38] Ana Herzog: machinima is big! same uses as all filming
[12:38] Cybergrrl Oh: Some of the films are being entered into contests
[12:38] Cybergrrl Oh: Some are being shown as TV shows on web sites or YouTube
[12:38] Fleep Tuque: Some for educational purposes, some for marketing purposes
[12:39] Cybergrrl Oh: Some are going to be revenue generators – selling advertising
[12:39] AlanBehr Blackburn: Okay, the Machinima question. YouTube, etc.
[12:39] AlanBehr Blackburn: Answer:
[12:39] Ana Herzog: they are being contracted for for standard commercial us.
[12:39] Ana Herzog: use
[12:39] AlanBehr Blackburn: Under the TOS, the creator has the rights.
[12:39] Kay Levasseur: filming could be educational, commercial, in-world, mass-marketed, etc.
[12:39] AlanBehr Blackburn: So you need consent, to the extent that what was created was indeed protectible.
[12:39] AlanBehr Blackburn: Many people think that they’ve created something unique, only to find later that they haven’t, but it’s expensive to learn that.
[12:40] Kay Levasseur: so what I’m hearing is that it’s best to create your own sets
[12:40] AlanBehr Blackburn: Basically, the rule is: if you make it in SL, Linden says you own it, and in theory you can protect it against real world infringement.
[12:40] AlanBehr Blackburn: Then again, NBC, CBS, etc., are constantly infringed on YouTube.
[12:40] Cybergrrl Oh: So if you feature other people’s avatars or clothing, skins, builds, etc. in your film, do you need releases?
[12:41] Fleep Tuque: That would be impossible to obtain in any public setting.
[12:41] AlanBehr Blackburn: In theory, yes, assuming that the owners created something protectible.
[12:41] Fleep Tuque: No way I could know what all of you are wearing and who created it all.
[12:41] Ana Herzog: Acceptable risk is a significant topic as everything here is created unlike in the realworld.
[12:41] Alanagh Recreant: / question for the que……. what about using creative commons licensing?
[12:41] Cybergrrl Oh: another in cue: IYan Writer: please don’t forget the copy/modify/transfer => automatic waiver of certain rights question – i’d really like a definite answer.
[12:41] Cybergrrl Oh: que
[12:41] dandellion Kimban: speaking of avatars…. avatar is intelectual property of the human behind it, right?
[12:41] AlanBehr Blackburn: Keep in mind that not everything is protectible. You’d have to show that the avatar is protectible as a character–like Superman.
[12:42] dandellion Kimban: what does that mean?
[12:42] Kay Levasseur: how do you show that?
[12:42] Fleep Tuque: Hm.
[12:42] AlanBehr Blackburn: You do that by creating something unique, and if you are a US citizen, you need to file your copyright application and get a registration if you want to collect enough reall $ to make it worth your while in most instances.
[12:42] Ana Herzog: Ana is part of me. It is an identity.
[12:43] IYan Writer: as LL=USA, in all cases US law applies?
[12:43] AlanBehr Blackburn: Okay, let’s use Ana as a case study. Tell us.
[12:43] Fleep Tuque: Aimee Weber trademarked her avatar’s image, if I recall correctly, and there were quips that then she could never remove her wings.
[12:43] AlanBehr Blackburn: One at a time, pls.
[12:43] AlanBehr Blackburn: Ana?
[12:43] Ana Herzog: I’m not a TM. I’m an element of an identity
[12:44] AlanBehr Blackburn: Ana, if you believe that your avatar looks like you in real life–is that the case?
[12:44] Ana Herzog: Ana is an extension of my personality. N. F. Hill in rl Ana Herzog in SL.
[12:44] Ana Herzog: no.
[12:44] Ana Herzog: this is about “being”
[12:44] Cybergrrl Oh: In some cases, however, the avatar IS the person. I see it as an extension of my BRAND
[12:44] AlanBehr Blackburn: If so, you have rights of publicity and privacy, but only as to the real you. Tennessee started that trend to protect Elvis in the afterlife.
[12:45] AlanBehr Blackburn: Brand is different: that’s trademark.
[12:45] Ana Herzog: my avatar is an extension of my representation of my self
[12:45] AlanBehr Blackburn: For real people, the person can be the brand, in effect.
[12:45] Ana Herzog: yes i’m a brand for commerical purposes
[12:45] AlanBehr Blackburn: It is possible that an avatar can be a part of that.
[12:45] AlanBehr Blackburn: I’d suggest that you would need to show that the avatar has a commercial use.
[12:46] AlanBehr Blackburn: Again, we’re talking trademark, which is about commerce, and not copyright, which is about creativity/arts.
[12:46] Ana Herzog: I have several sl companies and am creating a rl sl company and will claim my “profits” from sl.
[12:46] Alanagh Recreant: …this is fascinating
[12:46] AlanBehr Blackburn: If you show a brand in the avatar and use the image as a brand, you have a trademark. Think of the mouse and Disneyland.
[12:46] AlanBehr Blackburn: Companies:
[12:46] Fleep Tuque: Ok, that makes sense. “Fleep Tuque” is known as one who consults on education in Second Life. It is my in-world brand for my professional services.
[12:47] AlanBehr Blackburn: You would need to use the Ana avatar as part of the branding–you would see that image and associate it with the business.
[12:47] Alanagh Recreant: that’s what I meant Fleep… trademark the name!
[12:47] AlanBehr Blackburn: That could be a mark.
[12:47] Ana Herzog: I am a writer in rl and will begin publishing in sl soon.
[12:47] Alanagh Recreant: 😉
[12:47] Fleep Tuque: I see, that’s pretty neat.
[12:47] AlanBehr Blackburn: You can get a trademark in an avatar’s name.
[12:47] Cybergrrl Oh: Did we cover the questions about Creative Commons and this one:
[12:47] Cybergrrl Oh: IYan Writer: please don’t forget the copy/modify/transfer => automatic waiver of certain rights question – i’d really like a definite answer.
[12:47] dandellion Kimban: for example…. I can recreate the avatar of philip linden and show up publicly on the grid. Is that legal?
[12:47] AlanBehr Blackburn: want to switch to copyright/creative commons now?
[12:47] dandellion Kimban: (nope… we’re yet to grab CC and GPL)
[12:47] Cybergrrl Oh: IYan would like specificity on that one
[12:47] Ana Herzog: So I can TM Ana Herzog?
[12:48] Ana Herzog: Fantastic if so!
[12:48] Cybergrrl Oh: catch those last few and then we can move on
[12:48] AlanBehr Blackburn: Finish with Ana 1st:
[12:48] AlanBehr Blackburn: Maybe.
[12:48] Alanagh Recreant: / real example…. Nelson Mandela was trademarked and protected worldwide by a philatropist when he was still in prison… it was given to him – his name – when he was released!
[12:48] AlanBehr Blackburn: You would have to show a use of the avatar’s image in a consistent pose, I’d suggest, for branding.
[12:48] Ana Herzog: k.
[12:49] AlanBehr Blackburn: Example: the sign on an a virtual store has the avatar in a standard pose, as a logo, and stuff is sold within.
[12:49] AlanBehr Blackburn: That might work.
[12:49] Ana Herzog: with green hair and shoes.
[12:49] Ana Herzog: thanks so much.
[12:49] AlanBehr Blackburn: Green hair, that’s unqiue. Switch to copyright?
[12:49] Alanagh Recreant: ummm… surely,,, question again… you can protect a phrase…without the avie?
[12:50] AlanBehr Blackburn: Protect a phrase in what sense? as expression or as a trademark?
[12:50] AlanBehr Blackburn: the former is art, the latter is commerce.
[12:50] Alanagh Recreant: as a trademark
[12:50] AlanBehr Blackburn: Yes.
[12:50] Alanagh Recreant: Ana Herzog
[12:50] AlanBehr Blackburn: “Just do it,” is a trademark that is a phrase.
[12:50] Alanagh Recreant: period… and she can change whatever way she wants…
[12:51] Alanagh Recreant: but the name sticks
[12:51] Alanagh Recreant: :)) woman want to change!
[12:51] Ana Herzog: ol
[12:51] Ana Herzog: lol
[12:51] Cybergrrl Oh: we have about 10 minutes left – how about creative commons questions?
[12:51] AlanBehr Blackburn: Creative commons:
[12:51] Alanagh Recreant: …it needs to be unique and not in public domain though
[12:51] Alanagh Recreant listens
[12:52] AlanBehr Blackburn: That’s a movement out of Stamford, Lawrence lessig & his team.
[12:52] Alanagh Recreant nods
[12:52] AlanBehr Blackburn: The idea is to push back on copyright claims, which have made big gains in the past decades.
[12:52] AlanBehr Blackburn: There is a funny film made by them entirely out of Disney clips.
[12:53] AlanBehr Blackburn: It explains coyright law, and the point is, that fair use still exists. Only Disney clips are involved, but it is legal.
[12:53] AlanBehr Blackburn: Creative commons and the rights of copyright holders are in a tug of war.
[12:53] AlanBehr Blackburn: I spoke to NGOs at the UN last year.
[12:53] AlanBehr Blackburn: Half argued for the rights of authors and publishers.
[12:53] Fleep Tuque: Fair use for education, for example, is such a grey area that everyone is paranoid.
[12:53] Alanagh Recreant: / declaring interest: possibly working with iCommons in SA
[12:54] AlanBehr Blackburn: And half argued for expression to be available to all because it represents the spirit of the community.
[12:54] AlanBehr Blackburn: Here, in SL.
[12:54] Alanagh Recreant: / derivative of CC
[12:54] AlanBehr Blackburn: Sorry, I’m typing over other contributions. I’m tyring to take them in and integrate w/answers.
[12:54] AlanBehr Blackburn: In SL:
[12:54] AlanBehr Blackburn: Those TOS.
[12:54] Cybergrrl Oh: you’re doing great Alan!
[12:54] AlanBehr Blackburn: Contractual relations are key.
[12:54] AlanBehr Blackburn: Thanks. Thank goodness I type really fast.
[12:55] AlanBehr Blackburn: TOS control.
[12:55] Cybergrrl Oh smiles and nods
[12:55] AlanBehr Blackburn: Note that the Bragg lawsuit in PA has challenged a part of the TOS, and that the doc continues to change.
[12:55] AlanBehr Blackburn: But let’s assume for the present that they are valid.
[12:55] Cybergrrl Oh: what lawsuite?
[12:55] Fleep Tuque: (The sex bed lawsuit)
[12:56] AlanBehr Blackburn: That means that people who create avatars, even out of SL skins/texturres, could potentially create something unique.,
[12:56] AlanBehr Blackburn: Marvel Comics, which sues too often in my view, recently lost a case on that point, in effect.
[12:56] Ana Herzog: artists use paint
[12:56] AlanBehr Blackburn: right.
[12:56] AlanBehr Blackburn: But textures involve more creativity than paint.
[12:57] AlanBehr Blackburn: There is arguably enough creativity in some skins/textures that they are protectible.
[12:57] Cybergrrl Oh: we have about 5 minutes left. IYan had a question:
[12:57] Ana Herzog: paints are patented though
[12:57] Cybergrrl Oh: do the modify/copy/transfer attributes automatically serve as some form of implied release?
[12:57] Cybergrrl Oh: release of rights, I think he means, yes?
[12:57] IYan Writer: yes
[12:57] Alanagh Recreant: yes!
[12:57] AlanBehr Blackburn: If there is a patent on paint, it would be on the formula, not the color.
[12:57] Cybergrrl Oh: we can elect to allow others to modify our creations, copy them and transfer them – even if they pay
[12:58] Alanagh Recreant: UNLESS specified … and all content belongs to LL ! actually
[12:58] AlanBehr Blackburn: correct.
[12:58] Cybergrrl Oh: we may charge more for thse abilities but this is something we can elect to do
[12:58] AlanBehr Blackburn: You own your content.
[12:58] Leslye Writer: nervous that you won’t get to Iyan Writer’s question
[12:58] AlanBehr Blackburn: That’s the TOS.
[12:58] Cybergrrl Oh: all content does not belong to LL, Alanagh
[12:58] Alanagh Recreant: ummm… what about the TOS on LL side?
[12:58] Cybergrrl Oh: or was I wrong?
[12:58] Cybergrrl Oh: not according to the TOS
[12:58] LifeFactory Writer: Was that a yes….perms transfer rights? Does this also mean such things can be filmmed without a written release? TY!
[12:58] AlanBehr Blackburn: Okay, Iyan–your question again, and let’s try to help out.
[12:58] IYan Writer: ty 🙂
[12:58] AlanBehr Blackburn: let’s give IYan the floor.
[12:59] Alanagh Recreant thinks she needs to spend some real time with the LL TOS again
[12:59] IYan Writer: so, again:if I set the attributes, does tha tautomatically imply some waiver of my rights?
[12:59] Leslye Writer: cyber, ask the question again
[12:59] AlanBehr Blackburn: No, when you say you set attributes–example?
[12:59] Cybergrrl Oh: we can elect to allow others to modify our creations, copy them and transfer them – even if they pay
[12:59] IYan Writer: all content in SL has three flags: copy or no, transfer or no, modify or no
[13:00] Cybergrrl Oh: we may charge more for thse abilities but this is something we can elect to do [12:58] AlanBe
[13:00] AlanBehr Blackburn: okay
[13:00] IYan Writer: do we have to set the flags to NO if we want to retain rights?
[13:00] Leslye Writer: we allow our notecard of our writing to be copied onto other cards to distribute during a reading. Does that mean the poem is give away and copyright no longer is valid?
[13:00] AlanBehr Blackburn: That’s the better approach. When in doubt, don’t let someone copy unless you give express permission.
[13:01] dandellion Kimban: that is very bad approach
[13:01] Cybergrrl Oh: in a way, it seems like policing your trademark. if you let people just copy it and use it without some kind of agreement, you dilute your rights to it
[13:01] AlanBehr Blackburn: But if you let people copy and you notify them that they have to follow certain rules, such as no real world use, that would help your position too.
[13:01] Leslye Writer: giving permission means yu give you your rights of copyright?
[13:01] AlanBehr Blackburn: Right about trademarks, from Cybergirl.
[13:01] LifeFactory Writer: The Free Culture adherents and the Intel Prop devotees are going to have a very hard time co-exisiting here, I fear.
[13:01] IYan Writer: aha, so include a mini-TOS, set modify to NO and copy yo YES would work?
[13:02] AlanBehr Blackburn: Giving permission for specific use is not a permanent waiver of rights.
[13:02] Cybergrrl Oh: I think specificity is good, IYan – spelling out the acceptable uses
[13:02] Leslye Writer: I thank HUGELY your answer AlanB.
[13:02] AlanBehr Blackburn: Specificity!! Lawyers save their clients money with it, and clients save themselves grief with it.
[13:02] Alanagh Recreant thinks that is where CC is handy… you can specific rights in the description box 🙂 and still make it copy/mod/transfer…
[13:02] IYan Writer: thank you Alan
[13:02] AlanBehr Blackburn: You’re welcom.
[13:02] Cybergrrl Oh: I think we are wrapping up now
[13:02] dandellion Kimban: ther is a set of GPL’d scripts that run around the world as freebies….. but, too often they are found to be closed and sold…. that is not legal, tight? but how to fight that?
[13:02] Cybergrrl Oh: Alan is a lawyer after all and his time is money
[13:02] Cybergrrl Oh: 😉
[13:02] IYan Writer: another question, probably answerable by a single word: does US law apply in all cases for in-SL matters?
[13:03] Cybergrrl Oh: is everyone feeling like they had a question answered? got some actionable info?
[13:03] Alanagh Recreant: nice iYan
[13:03] AlanBehr Blackburn: SL governed by Calif law.
[13:03] AlanBehr Blackburn: I’ve got to go, folks. thank you and I hope I was helpful.
[13:04] Cybergrrl Oh: I’ll have a transcript of this chat on the Second Life Entrepreneurs Club blog soon
[13:04] Cybergrrl Oh:


Art Panel @ Oyster Bay: Transcript

November 27, 2007

Recently in Oyster Bay, artists Madcow Cosmos, Flithly Fluno, Cheen Pitney and Gracie Kendal with Moderator Morris Vig got together to discuss “success in Second Life art”. Here’s the transcript, in case you missed it!

[2007/11/26 18:01] Morris Vig: Cheen, MC, filthy, come on down!
[2007/11/26 18:01] Object: Max Janick, say ‘/1 Hide’ to hide me, or ‘/1 Show’ to make me show. Or just right-click and sit on me to use me.
[2007/11/26 18:01] Filthy Fluno: tell that to my wife metalhead
[2007/11/26 18:02] Ludo Merit: Better too high than too low
[2007/11/26 18:02] Gracie Kendal: Jordan!!!!!
[2007/11/26 18:02] Filthy Fluno: ok
[2007/11/26 18:02] metalhead Cosmos: lololololol
[2007/11/26 18:02] Morris Vig: Hey J!
[2007/11/26 18:02] Morris Vig: Ever have a personalized poseball?
[2007/11/26 18:02] Morris Vig: lol
[2007/11/26 18:02] Cheen Pitney: o good placecards
[2007/11/26 18:02] Isolde Flamand: hello Tricia!
[2007/11/26 18:02] Xander Ruttan: Hi everyone!
[2007/11/26 18:02] metalhead Cosmos: yep
[2007/11/26 18:02] Tricia Aferdita: Hi Isolde!
[2007/11/26 18:02] Isolde Flamand: Hi Xander
[2007/11/26 18:02] Cheen Pitney: guess I know my place
[2007/11/26 18:02] Tricia Aferdita: Hi Everyone!
[2007/11/26 18:02] metalhead Cosmos: I have alll kinds a toys
[2007/11/26 18:02] Gracie Kendal: LOL well….it depends 😛
[2007/11/26 18:02] Xander Ruttan: hi isolde
[2007/11/26 18:03] Morris Vig: OK let’s get this party started. A couple ground rules. We’re gonna use text chat so we can keep a transcript. Please respect the speaker. If you havea question, please IM me and I’ll call on you.
[2007/11/26 18:03] Max Janick: was that someone’s mic? 😮
[2007/11/26 18:03] Sasun Steinbeck is Online
[2007/11/26 18:03] Cylindrian Rutabaga: oh no
[2007/11/26 18:03] Cylindrian Rutabaga: Filthy’s SINGING
[2007/11/26 18:03] metalhead Cosmos: sorry if you got a “burst” of Van halen
[2007/11/26 18:03] Max Janick: yay filthy!
[2007/11/26 18:03] Cylindrian Rutabaga: he’s supposed to be naked when singing
[2007/11/26 18:03] metalhead Cosmos: I hit the wrong button
[2007/11/26 18:03] Morris Vig: Getting started, I want to welcome you all. Let’s thank Enniv Zarf and Cyanide Seelowe for spurring discussion of this topic
[2007/11/26 18:04] Cylindrian Rutabaga: that was beautiful!!!
[2007/11/26 18:04] Filthy Fluno: k
[2007/11/26 18:04] Cylindrian Rutabaga: ENCORE!!!
[2007/11/26 18:04] Filthy Fluno: only 1$?
[2007/11/26 18:04] Filthy Fluno: ouch
[2007/11/26 18:04] Max Janick: ENCORE!
[2007/11/26 18:04] Morris Vig: the “Best of SL Art” has been a topic of conversation, but there are some fun, fundamental isuses…like what makes you the best? and, by extension, what makes you successful?
[2007/11/26 18:04] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:04] Gracie Kendal: Is that was this talk was for?
[2007/11/26 18:04] Morris Vig: So let’s let our esteemed panel kick it off. How do you folks define success in SL art?
[2007/11/26 18:05] Morris Vig: um yeah kinda G
[2007/11/26 18:05] Teofila Matova is Online
[2007/11/26 18:05] metalhead Cosmos: well i would think income amount determines success in SL….just like RL
[2007/11/26 18:05] Gracie Kendal: I have no idea 😛
[2007/11/26 18:05] Filthy Fluno: metalhead
[2007/11/26 18:05] Filthy Fluno: that is a good point
[2007/11/26 18:05] Max Janick: You honestly can’t define ‘best’ in objective terms unless you gauge success as monetary gain. And that opens a whole chestnut of controversy
[2007/11/26 18:05] AldoManutio Abruzzo is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:06] Gracie Kendal: I think success and best are two different things
[2007/11/26 18:06] metalhead Cosmos: I have GREAT 3d art…..but I am unsuccesful because I do not sell very many
[2007/11/26 18:06] Filthy Fluno: me too
[2007/11/26 18:06] Filthy Fluno: how about panelists get to comment
[2007/11/26 18:06] Filthy Fluno: then audience
[2007/11/26 18:06] Filthy Fluno: MAX?!!!
[2007/11/26 18:06] Morris Vig: fire away filthy
[2007/11/26 18:06] Filthy Fluno: ahemmmmm
[2007/11/26 18:06] Filthy Fluno: ok
[2007/11/26 18:06] Morris Vig: how do you measure success?
[2007/11/26 18:06] Filthy Fluno: where was i
[2007/11/26 18:06] Filthy Fluno: yes
[2007/11/26 18:06] Max Janick: I’ll agree, but only if you sing again
[2007/11/26 18:07] Filthy Fluno: selling is important if that’s your goal
[2007/11/26 18:07] metalhead Cosmos: lol
[2007/11/26 18:07] Max Janick: ❤
[2007/11/26 18:07] Filthy Fluno: i will talk about selling
[2007/11/26 18:07] Filthy Fluno: since that is my prioirty in here… i gotta pay my mortgage by selling art
[2007/11/26 18:07] Gracie Kendal: for me its not about selling
[2007/11/26 18:07] Cheen Pitney: I think it depends on who is defining it someone else or the artis him or her self
[2007/11/26 18:07] Gracie Kendal: its getting my work and ‘name’ out to a larger audience
[2007/11/26 18:07] metalhead Cosmos: true
[2007/11/26 18:08] Filthy Fluno: yes.. so let’s just speak to what our individual goals are
[2007/11/26 18:08] Gracie Kendal: I ws averaging 40-50 sales a month
[2007/11/26 18:08] metalhead Cosmos: I have been told by some of the most succesful ppl in SL that my art is top notch and I should be doing really well….but again…..I’m not
[2007/11/26 18:08] Blackthorn Hare: Isn’t this discussion going to come down to “We all define success on our own terms?”
[2007/11/26 18:08] Gracie Kendal: of course, we all know that has considerably slowed down
[2007/11/26 18:08] Filthy Fluno: ok
[2007/11/26 18:08] Filthy Fluno: first
[2007/11/26 18:09] Gracie Kendal: But success for me is using my art for charity…
[2007/11/26 18:09] Carrie Tatsu is Online
[2007/11/26 18:09] Cheen Pitney: honorable ideal Grace
[2007/11/26 18:09] Filthy Fluno: i’ll come out and say that anyone who says they have the best, or most successful this or that is usually full of shit
[2007/11/26 18:09] metalhead Cosmos: I was trying to supplement my retirement with art in SL and online
[2007/11/26 18:09] Filthy Fluno: there’s too much criteria
[2007/11/26 18:09] Filthy Fluno: contests…
[2007/11/26 18:09] Filthy Fluno: blah
[2007/11/26 18:09] Filthy Fluno: best of SL
[2007/11/26 18:09] Filthy Fluno: is caca
[2007/11/26 18:09] Failius Falta is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:10] Kafka Joubert: throwing fancy french aorunds i see
[2007/11/26 18:10] Filthy Fluno: its all about longevity
[2007/11/26 18:10] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:10] Filthy Fluno: perservearance
[2007/11/26 18:10] Filthy Fluno: and making the best art you can
[2007/11/26 18:10] Madcow Cosmos: Contests are not about winning so much as name recognition
[2007/11/26 18:10] metalhead Cosmos: well i consider someone who clears $8,000k US pretty damn successful
[2007/11/26 18:10] Morris Vig: but you have to agree, Filthy, that the notion of success is worth discussing, only because the nature of SL really makes it different than RL.
[2007/11/26 18:10] Filthy Fluno: that’s fine
[2007/11/26 18:10] Ludo Merit: who?
[2007/11/26 18:10] Cheen Pitney: woo who does that
[2007/11/26 18:10] metalhead Cosmos: thats weekly btw
[2007/11/26 18:10] Filthy Fluno: who is doing that metalhead
[2007/11/26 18:11] metalhead Cosmos: my buddy Ninja Petion
[2007/11/26 18:11] Morris Vig: Nice gig.
[2007/11/26 18:11] Cheen Pitney: well count me in on that gravy trai
[2007/11/26 18:11] metalhead Cosmos: he got me into SL to design for him
[2007/11/26 18:11] Gracie Kendal: selling art?
[2007/11/26 18:11] Filthy Fluno: i agree morris
[2007/11/26 18:11] metalhead Cosmos: No…he owns an island and a mall
[2007/11/26 18:11] Gracie Kendal: I have never heard of him
[2007/11/26 18:11] Filthy Fluno: but.. .who is the most succesfful?
[2007/11/26 18:11] Gracie Kendal: well..thats different
[2007/11/26 18:11] Filthy Fluno: who cares?
[2007/11/26 18:11] metalhead Cosmos: clothes shoes jewelry etc
[2007/11/26 18:11] Filthy Fluno: what can make people successful is the key
[2007/11/26 18:11] Gracie Kendal: thats art in its own right
[2007/11/26 18:11] metalhead Cosmos: to ME ….he is successful at SL
[2007/11/26 18:11] Gracie Kendal: but now what we are talkign about
[2007/11/26 18:11] Filthy Fluno: ok
[2007/11/26 18:12] Filthy Fluno: but.. i’ve never heard of him
[2007/11/26 18:12] Filthy Fluno: as far as i know
[2007/11/26 18:12] Cheen Pitney: and he dont care
[2007/11/26 18:12] metalhead Cosmos: Digital Dragon Designs?
[2007/11/26 18:12] Filthy Fluno: you are him
[2007/11/26 18:12] Cheen Pitney: hahaha
[2007/11/26 18:12] Morris Vig: We’ve got some real definite opinions on this. Financially, that’s a criteria.
[2007/11/26 18:12] Morris Vig: What about word of mouth?
[2007/11/26 18:12] Gracie Kendal: Absolutely
[2007/11/26 18:12] metalhead Cosmos: what?……are you on crack or something?
[2007/11/26 18:12] Cheen Pitney: well accolades are nice
[2007/11/26 18:12] Filthy Fluno: saying that someone sold $8k of stuff in SL
[2007/11/26 18:12] Gracie Kendal: Its who ya know :))
[2007/11/26 18:12] Filthy Fluno: is pointless
[2007/11/26 18:13] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:13] Shawn Beaumont: is everyone supposed to turn off voice?
[2007/11/26 18:13] RITCHEY Jacobus is Online
[2007/11/26 18:13] Morris Vig waits for Gracie to bring up the SL Art Mafia….
[2007/11/26 18:13] Gracie Kendal: Me, you started it!!!!
[2007/11/26 18:13] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:13] Gracie Kendal: yoru the godfather arent you?
[2007/11/26 18:13] Madcow Cosmos: Word of mouth is a ends to a means. Its not about recognition so much as what that regogition brings
[2007/11/26 18:13] Filthy Fluno: success for me is for everyone to know that I am Filthy FLuno, avatar of the RL artist Jeffrey Lipsky
[2007/11/26 18:13] Morris Vig: Yes, we’re using text chat to ensure a transcript
[2007/11/26 18:13] Mark Cassini is Online
[2007/11/26 18:14] Morris Vig: and you use SL to sell RL art, right, Filthy?
[2007/11/26 18:14] Filthy Fluno: for people to know that the art i make is important
[2007/11/26 18:14] Gracie Kendal: yes, but..for me its about getting my passion out there…
[2007/11/26 18:14] Cheen Pitney: and 2d artists have it there
[2007/11/26 18:14] Filthy Fluno: yes i do morris
[2007/11/26 18:14] Filthy Fluno: i’ve tried other ways
[2007/11/26 18:14] Cheen Pitney: it translates int rl much better
[2007/11/26 18:14] Filthy Fluno: SL works the best for me to hook up opportunites and sell art
[2007/11/26 18:14] Morris Vig: get your passion out there, Gracie?
[2007/11/26 18:14] metalhead Cosmos: wow you seem like a self centered , egomaniac
[2007/11/26 18:14] Gracie Kendal: I woudl love to use SL as a vehicle to get into a RL gallery
[2007/11/26 18:14] Filthy Fluno: metalhead
[2007/11/26 18:14] metalhead Cosmos: yes?
[2007/11/26 18:15] Filthy Fluno: you’ve done most of the talking here
[2007/11/26 18:15] Cheen Pitney: the internet is your gallery
[2007/11/26 18:15] metalhead Cosmos: and?
[2007/11/26 18:15] Lanai Jarrico is Online
[2007/11/26 18:15] Morris Vig: would you find getting into a RL gallery as a point of success, Gracie?
[2007/11/26 18:15] Gracie Kendal: absolutely
[2007/11/26 18:15] metalhead Cosmos: your keyboard works right?
[2007/11/26 18:15] Filthy Fluno: and the four of us on stage were invited to present
[2007/11/26 18:15] Filthy Fluno: you’re not letting us
[2007/11/26 18:15] Filthy Fluno: there needs to be some kind of organization here
[2007/11/26 18:15] Gracie Kendal: for me thats part of it….
[2007/11/26 18:15] Filthy Fluno: so please let other’s talk
[2007/11/26 18:16] Filthy Fluno: and don’t name call
[2007/11/26 18:16] Gracie Kendal: I also find success in bing able to talk about my work with people from all over the world
[2007/11/26 18:16] Gracie Kendal: which SL provides
[2007/11/26 18:16] Morris Vig: Yes, thank you Filthy
[2007/11/26 18:16] metalhead Cosmos: sorry ….part of my military “take charge” attitude
[2007/11/26 18:16] Settezin Zabelin is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:16] Cheen Pitney: yes that is good
[2007/11/26 18:16] Filthy Fluno: meh
[2007/11/26 18:16] Morris Vig: Cheen – build on that, please
[2007/11/26 18:16] MadelMan Benelli is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:16] Cheen Pitney: to get lots of l=folks to see your work
[2007/11/26 18:16] Cheen Pitney: I get great joy when someone Ims
[2007/11/26 18:17] Morris Vig: exposure, a good thing indeed
[2007/11/26 18:17] Cheen Pitney: and say love your stuff
[2007/11/26 18:17] Gracie Kendal: absolutely
[2007/11/26 18:17] Gracie Kendal: people that you dont know
[2007/11/26 18:17] Filthy Fluno: yes.. i agree
[2007/11/26 18:17] metalhead Cosmos: so ….how does one go about becomeing MORE succesful if there goal is monetary achivement?
[2007/11/26 18:17] Gracie Kendal: its an amazing feeling
[2007/11/26 18:17] Cheen Pitney: from all over the world
[2007/11/26 18:17] Corcosman Voom: Oy
[2007/11/26 18:17] Morris Vig: Metalhead, please let the panelists talk
[2007/11/26 18:17] Filthy Fluno: that’s a good question metalhead
[2007/11/26 18:17] Callipygian Christensen: metalhead, shutting up and listening is a good start imo
[2007/11/26 18:17] Filthy Fluno: can i try to answer it?
[2007/11/26 18:17] Morris Vig: Sure
[2007/11/26 18:17] Madcow Cosmos: Better you than me filthy
[2007/11/26 18:17] Filthy Fluno: ok…so
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: people send me im’s say they like it
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: me as in.. the artist
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: i collect these names
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: and at the end of each week
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: contact them
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: same with my visitor counter
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: follow up is crucial
[2007/11/26 18:18] Cheen Pitney: yes
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: “you came to my gallery, you said you liked.. let’s talk
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: just like RL
[2007/11/26 18:18] Gracie Kendal: Absolutely
[2007/11/26 18:19] Filthy Fluno: you ALWAYS gotta follow up
[2007/11/26 18:19] Filthy Fluno: if not
[2007/11/26 18:19] Ludo Merit: Oh, does that bring the price down?
[2007/11/26 18:19] Cheen Pitney: up hahahah
[2007/11/26 18:19] Filthy Fluno: does what bring the price down?
[2007/11/26 18:19] IanLee Patton: hehehe
[2007/11/26 18:19] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:19] Morris Vig: heh
[2007/11/26 18:19] Filthy Fluno: whooooosh.. over my head
[2007/11/26 18:19] Ludo Merit: If I say I like something does that somehowe make me able to afford it?
[2007/11/26 18:19] Morris Vig: So does that get you sales – RL or sl?
[2007/11/26 18:19] Filthy Fluno: no
[2007/11/26 18:19] Filthy Fluno: liking and affording are two different things
[2007/11/26 18:19] Cheen Pitney: makes good vibrations
[2007/11/26 18:20] Filthy Fluno: but… its a good start
[2007/11/26 18:20] Cheen Pitney: gtsyour name out positively
[2007/11/26 18:20] Ludo Merit: So you can follow up with me and I still won’t buy.
[2007/11/26 18:20] Morris Vig: so relationships – that’s part of the package
[2007/11/26 18:20] Filthy Fluno: i could care less if people llike the art i make
[2007/11/26 18:20] Filthy Fluno: if i cared.. .the art wouldn’t be the same
[2007/11/26 18:20] Cheen Pitney: but you may tell a friend
[2007/11/26 18:20] Filthy Fluno: i’d just churn out the same caca
[2007/11/26 18:20] Filthy Fluno: and keep it safe
[2007/11/26 18:20] Faust Milev is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:20] Filthy Fluno: the fact is that not every artist is gonna make it in here
[2007/11/26 18:21] Filthy Fluno: actually… the minority will
[2007/11/26 18:21] metalhead Cosmos: so what your saying is “networking” is the key
[2007/11/26 18:21] Filthy Fluno: yes metalhead.. networking is huge
[2007/11/26 18:21] Cheen Pitney: get your name out there
[2007/11/26 18:21] Filthy Fluno: nothing really surprising about that
[2007/11/26 18:21] Madcow Cosmos: By make it do you mean in the financial sense only?
[2007/11/26 18:21] Cheen Pitney: there are so many folks here
[2007/11/26 18:21] Filthy Fluno: i mean to make it as in… be able to sustain yourself as an artist
[2007/11/26 18:21] Cheen Pitney: catch as many as you can
[2007/11/26 18:21] Filthy Fluno: some people need compliments
[2007/11/26 18:21] Filthy Fluno: and need to be liked
[2007/11/26 18:22] Filthy Fluno: and need their art to be liked
[2007/11/26 18:22] Cheen Pitney: the wider you cast the net
[2007/11/26 18:22] Morris Vig: OK Madcow, pipe in. You’re a prolific guy. What happened to make you think you might be successful in SL art?
[2007/11/26 18:23] Corcosman Voom: Crashed?
[2007/11/26 18:23] Madcow Cosmos: Well My goal has nothing to do with finance, I’m about 3 30 item vendors behind in even getting my things to market
[2007/11/26 18:23] MadelMan Benelli is Online
[2007/11/26 18:23] Faust Milev is Online
[2007/11/26 18:23] Morris Vig: then what’s the goal for you?
[2007/11/26 18:23] Cheen Pitney: beauty
[2007/11/26 18:23] Cheen Pitney: bony beauty
[2007/11/26 18:23] Alander Starostin: wow
[2007/11/26 18:23] Madcow Cosmos: My goal was to share my imagination with others and keep the virtual world as wierd as my personal one
[2007/11/26 18:23] Alander Starostin: hi every body
[2007/11/26 18:23] Filthy Fluno: so cheen.. you don’t need the $$ to survive in RL
[2007/11/26 18:23] Gracie Kendal: Yes
[2007/11/26 18:24] Cheen Pitney: well I must say it helps
[2007/11/26 18:24] Richarrd Larsson is Online
[2007/11/26 18:24] Cheen Pitney: dont pay the bills but
[2007/11/26 18:24] Madcow Cosmos: I don’t even need my name attached to things but without recognition its hard to open doors
[2007/11/26 18:24] Filthy Fluno: so what makes you successful panelists?
[2007/11/26 18:24] Morris Vig: Gracie, you market your works and your galleries as well as any artist. What drives you?
[2007/11/26 18:24] Filthy Fluno: what are you doing to be successful here?
[2007/11/26 18:24] Filthy Fluno: sorry morris
[2007/11/26 18:24] Morris Vig: np filthy
[2007/11/26 18:25] Filthy Fluno: didn’t mean to jump in there
[2007/11/26 18:25] Morris Vig: it’s all about dialogue
[2007/11/26 18:25] cypress Rosewood is Online
[2007/11/26 18:25] Gracie Kendal: definitely isnt the money…LOL
[2007/11/26 18:25] Gracie Kendal: I knew when I becaame an artist..that I would be I got my degree in Art History…
[2007/11/26 18:25] Gracie Kendal: but..I LOVE art
[2007/11/26 18:25] Gracie Kendal: I am here…and I show my works..because of that love
[2007/11/26 18:25] Cheen Pitney: and it shows
[2007/11/26 18:25] Filthy Fluno: gracie
[2007/11/26 18:25] Morris Vig: clearly
[2007/11/26 18:26] Cheen Pitney: you hold true
[2007/11/26 18:26] Gracie Kendal: Thank you 🙂
[2007/11/26 18:26] Filthy Fluno: let’s say you get that killer dream job at a museum
[2007/11/26 18:26] Filthy Fluno: in RL
[2007/11/26 18:26] Filthy Fluno: and you got no more time for SL
[2007/11/26 18:26] Filthy Fluno: what happens then?
[2007/11/26 18:26] Gracie Kendal: My ultimate dream job….honestly…..
[2007/11/26 18:26] Gracie Kendal: is to be a full time artist…
[2007/11/26 18:26] Gracie Kendal: not rich…
[2007/11/26 18:26] Carrie Tatsu is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:26] Gracie Kendal: but being able to live off pof creating
[2007/11/26 18:26] Morris Vig: a reasonable standard, RL or SL
[2007/11/26 18:26] Cheen Pitney: the pyramid is steep Grace
[2007/11/26 18:26] Gracie Kendal: I will always have tim e for Sl
[2007/11/26 18:27] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:27] Filthy Fluno: that’s good news
[2007/11/26 18:27] Cheen Pitney: only one eric clapton
[2007/11/26 18:27] Filthy Fluno: yes
[2007/11/26 18:27] Gracie Kendal: Yes, exactl CHeen
[2007/11/26 18:27] Madcow Cosmos: I’d rather be dream unemployed than have a dream job
[2007/11/26 18:27] Gracie Kendal: LOL yea
[2007/11/26 18:27] Gracie Kendal: I am right now…LOL
[2007/11/26 18:27] Cheen Pitney: that is cool too
[2007/11/26 18:27] Morris Vig: OK Cheen – you don’t own land in SL, right? Is there a financial imperative for you?
[2007/11/26 18:27] Gracie Kendal: so if anyone is hiring :))
[2007/11/26 18:27] Cheen Pitney: of the passion is there
[2007/11/26 18:27] Filthy Fluno: hire her already!
[2007/11/26 18:27] Morris Vig: amen, filthy.
[2007/11/26 18:28] Cheen Pitney: well yes there is
[2007/11/26 18:28] Morris Vig: is that it?
[2007/11/26 18:28] Gracie Kendal: lol
[2007/11/26 18:28] Cheen Pitney: to keep you going hahahaha
[2007/11/26 18:28] Morris Vig: ah – the Vig Fund for O.B. Preservation
[2007/11/26 18:28] Morris Vig: but enough of that
[2007/11/26 18:28] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:28] Cheen Pitney: its in the mix but not the total picture
[2007/11/26 18:29] Morris Vig: flesh it out, please
[2007/11/26 18:29] Cheen Pitney: I was totally amazed when that became viable
[2007/11/26 18:29] Morris Vig: (not the Vig stuff)
[2007/11/26 18:29] cypress Rosewood is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:29] Gracie Kendal: I mean..check out t new Christmans tree that Madcow created….and all of the artist working together…I think that is an amazing collaboration
[2007/11/26 18:29] Cheen Pitney: and I am not rich
[2007/11/26 18:29] Cheen Pitney: by any means
[2007/11/26 18:29] Cheen Pitney: here or there
[2007/11/26 18:29] Gracie Kendal: sorry..cheen 🙂
[2007/11/26 18:29] cypress Rosewood is Online
[2007/11/26 18:30] Cheen Pitney: np
[2007/11/26 18:30] Filthy Fluno: i’d also like to add
[2007/11/26 18:30] Morris Vig: please do
[2007/11/26 18:30] Thinkerer Melville is Online
[2007/11/26 18:30] Filthy Fluno: you gotta educate yourself to the market forces in SL
[2007/11/26 18:30] Filthy Fluno: first and foremost
[2007/11/26 18:30] Morris Vig: talk about that
[2007/11/26 18:30] Filthy Fluno: they’re crazily unstable
[2007/11/26 18:30] Filthy Fluno: but
[2007/11/26 18:30] Morris Vig: how so?
[2007/11/26 18:30] Madcow Cosmos: Filth always sells though, good choice in names.
[2007/11/26 18:30] Filthy Fluno: the best read I’ve found is Slart Magazine’s pdf download
[2007/11/26 18:31] Morris Vig: heh MC
[2007/11/26 18:31] Filthy Fluno: he’s a Real life economist
[2007/11/26 18:31] Filthy Fluno: art collector
[2007/11/26 18:31] Filthy Fluno: artist
[2007/11/26 18:31] Filthy Fluno: administrator
[2007/11/26 18:31] Filthy Fluno: and really grumpy usually.. .the grumpy guys usually know their shit
[2007/11/26 18:31] Morris Vig: this is ArtWorld Market, you mean
[2007/11/26 18:31] Filthy Fluno: yes
[2007/11/26 18:31] Ludo Merit: When is question time?
[2007/11/26 18:31] Madcow Cosmos: You said earlier that you didn’t let others enjoyment of your work effect its creation, so how do you use what you find there filthy?
[2007/11/26 18:32] Morris Vig: we’ll start on questions in a second. If you have any, IM me and I’ll call on you
[2007/11/26 18:32] Morris Vig: FYI – ArtWorld’s blog:
[2007/11/26 18:32] Filthy Fluno: madcow…
[2007/11/26 18:32] Filthy Fluno: its actually
[2007/11/26 18:32] Filthy Fluno: but anyway
[2007/11/26 18:33] Filthy Fluno: i listen to how to make your art grow in value
[2007/11/26 18:33] Filthy Fluno: how to make good decisions
[2007/11/26 18:33] Filthy Fluno: that will help me market my art
[2007/11/26 18:33] Filthy Fluno: as far as my art “being good?
[2007/11/26 18:34] Filthy Fluno: well… i know i work my ass off to make it
[2007/11/26 18:34] Sky Hye: It’s good
[2007/11/26 18:34] Cheen Pitney: ye of the geholder
[2007/11/26 18:34] Morris Vig: agreed
[2007/11/26 18:34] Cheen Pitney: eye
[2007/11/26 18:34] Filthy Fluno: and when i see it, it makes me warm in the pants
[2007/11/26 18:34] Filthy Fluno: so i know its done
[2007/11/26 18:34] Morris Vig: OK got a question from Ludo. Any others with questions, IM me to get in line.
[2007/11/26 18:34] Filthy Fluno: to me….
[2007/11/26 18:35] Morris Vig: whoops sorry filthy
[2007/11/26 18:35] Filthy Fluno: SL is AMAZING place to find art enthusiasts
[2007/11/26 18:35] Cheen Pitney: and you have a good approech F
[2007/11/26 18:35] Filthy Fluno: ok.. .i’m done.. hee hee
[2007/11/26 18:35] Morris Vig: Ludo?
[2007/11/26 18:35] Filthy Fluno: yes i do cheen
[2007/11/26 18:35] You decline When Worlds Collide Radio Show from A group member named cypress Rosewood.
[2007/11/26 18:35] Filthy Fluno: fire away ludo
[2007/11/26 18:35] Ludo Merit: y question. I create things that might be art, might be useful, might be both. Is it worth the trouble to sell them or won’t I make back the cost of the vendors?
[2007/11/26 18:35] Ludo Merit: And what is the time-money tradeoff
[2007/11/26 18:36] Cheen Pitney: you gotta try
[2007/11/26 18:36] Cheen Pitney: if folks buy
[2007/11/26 18:36] Ludo Merit: I have
[2007/11/26 18:36] Filthy Fluno: i’d say you need to be in SL for at least 20 hours a week
[2007/11/26 18:36] Cheen Pitney: keep it up
[2007/11/26 18:36] Filthy Fluno: that’s what seems to work for me
[2007/11/26 18:36] Ludo Merit: I am
[2007/11/26 18:36] Morris Vig: why 20, filthy?
[2007/11/26 18:36] Ludo Merit: But not just working on art
[2007/11/26 18:36] Filthy Fluno: well… you gotta never shutup about what you do
[2007/11/26 18:36] Filthy Fluno: that’s my secret mostly
[2007/11/26 18:36] Ludo Merit: Good point
[2007/11/26 18:36] Cheen Pitney: and be seen
[2007/11/26 18:37] Morris Vig: Be seen?
[2007/11/26 18:37] Cheen Pitney: your art and YOU
[2007/11/26 18:37] Filthy Fluno: i assume everyone will be excited to see my messy drawings about SL people, places, and events
[2007/11/26 18:37] Filthy Fluno: i am my art
[2007/11/26 18:37] Cheen Pitney: once again cast a wide net
[2007/11/26 18:37] Morris Vig: How do YOU “be seen”?
[2007/11/26 18:37] Filthy Fluno: points to his title
[2007/11/26 18:37] Tony Lockjaw is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:37] Ludo Merit: I am being seen herre and I am wearing a product of my art
[2007/11/26 18:37] Filthy Fluno: great! you’re on your way then
[2007/11/26 18:37] Cheen Pitney: and you must get into malls
[2007/11/26 18:37] Cheen Pitney: god forbid
[2007/11/26 18:38] Ludo Merit: Shameless plug
[2007/11/26 18:38] Cheen Pitney: where folks are
[2007/11/26 18:38] Ludo Merit: That costs money
[2007/11/26 18:38] Tony Lockjaw is Online
[2007/11/26 18:38] Cheen Pitney: even if only one in a hundred likes you
[2007/11/26 18:38] Cheen Pitney: agreed
[2007/11/26 18:38] Filthy Fluno: gotta pay to play i think
[2007/11/26 18:38] Cheen Pitney: we were all lucky lets face it
[2007/11/26 18:38] Ludo Merit: I’m way in the hole right now
[2007/11/26 18:38] Cheen Pitney: folks like our stuff
[2007/11/26 18:38] Filthy Fluno: if you’re way in the hole, maybe you need to stop, reassess
[2007/11/26 18:39] Cheen Pitney: are you in slx
[2007/11/26 18:39] Cheen Pitney: its free
[2007/11/26 18:39] Morris Vig: slx =
[2007/11/26 18:39] Ludo Merit: Good point, Cheen
[2007/11/26 18:39] Filthy Fluno: oh!
[2007/11/26 18:39] Filthy Fluno: and my all means.. get a gallery and do events
[2007/11/26 18:39] Cheen Pitney: yes
[2007/11/26 18:39] Filthy Fluno: you gotta do events if you’re an artist
[2007/11/26 18:40] Gracie Kendal: absolutely
[2007/11/26 18:40] Cheen Pitney: and join galleries
[2007/11/26 18:40] Gracie Kendal: and collaborate
[2007/11/26 18:40] Gracie Kendal: with musicians,
[2007/11/26 18:40] Ludo Merit: Are events something like book signings?
[2007/11/26 18:40] Morris Vig: on that front, Xander has a question
[2007/11/26 18:40] Gracie Kendal: can think of
[2007/11/26 18:40] Cheen Pitney: approach owners
[2007/11/26 18:40] Filthy Fluno: yes ludo
[2007/11/26 18:40] Madcow Cosmos: I think you are crazy if you are not at the events, they are fun in and of themselves
[2007/11/26 18:40] Filthy Fluno: fire away xander
[2007/11/26 18:40] Ludo Merit: Thanks all
[2007/11/26 18:40] Filthy Fluno: totally madcow
[2007/11/26 18:40] Morris Vig: (BTW, Xander’s Cetus District was the #1 arts venue in the Corsa Guide poll. congrats!)
[2007/11/26 18:40] Cheen Pitney: I talk to mall owneres and say do you want a massive prim sculpture hahaha
[2007/11/26 18:41] Xander Ruttan: In the RL art world, a very negative perception exists about self promotion. What can SL artists do to counteract the negatives of going it alone without representation?
[2007/11/26 18:41] Scarp Godenot: Good job xander.
[2007/11/26 18:41] Xander Ruttan: thanks Morris
[2007/11/26 18:41] Filthy Fluno: they can stick it out
[2007/11/26 18:41] Cheen Pitney: well I have an agent
[2007/11/26 18:41] Filthy Fluno: and be successful artists
[2007/11/26 18:41] Morris Vig: you do, Cheen?
[2007/11/26 18:41] Cheen Pitney: and he works for me
[2007/11/26 18:41] Cheen Pitney: yes
[2007/11/26 18:41] Morris Vig: had no idea
[2007/11/26 18:41] Cheen Pitney: folks find him and he brings them
[2007/11/26 18:42] Filthy Fluno: and if you can’t stick it out on your own, or find an agent… then just do SL for fun
[2007/11/26 18:42] Cheen Pitney: not for everyone of course
[2007/11/26 18:42] Gracie Kendal: I think it depends on where you show…in Rl….
[2007/11/26 18:42] Cheen Pitney: exactly thats why we all started
[2007/11/26 18:42] Cheen Pitney: and are still here … funn
[2007/11/26 18:42] Gracie Kendal: And who givves that nevative perception of self promotion???
[2007/11/26 18:42] Gracie Kendal: theelite galleries, saatchi,…etc
[2007/11/26 18:42] Morris Vig: Gracie, Xander’s question runs up your alley as you market pretty hard. How do you self-promote and keep a positive perception?
[2007/11/26 18:42] Filthy Fluno: gracie
[2007/11/26 18:43] Filthy Fluno: the people that make money off of selling your art
[2007/11/26 18:43] Filthy Fluno: that’s who
[2007/11/26 18:43] Amelie Dibou is Online
[2007/11/26 18:43] Gracie Kendal: Artnews magazine has an artists directory twice a year that you can put yoru own art in
[2007/11/26 18:43] Blue Tsuki is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:43] Filthy Fluno: great idea gracie
[2007/11/26 18:43] Filthy Fluno: not too expensive either
[2007/11/26 18:43] Morris Vig: Excellent call.
[2007/11/26 18:44] Gracie Kendal: well…I am just starting to promote myself in RL honestly..I have been goign to school so long…
[2007/11/26 18:44] Gracie Kendal: after this great reception here….I am workign on RL…
[2007/11/26 18:44] Gracie Kendal: but…its not the same…
[2007/11/26 18:44] Cheen Pitney: thats another way to succeess being mentioned in publications
[2007/11/26 18:44] Gracie Kendal: I have submitted to juried art competitions..and
[2007/11/26 18:44] Gracie Kendal: been rejected many times
[2007/11/26 18:44] Filthy Fluno: and not only to get published… you need to publicize your publicity!
[2007/11/26 18:44] Ludo Merit chuckles
[2007/11/26 18:45] Gracie Kendal: yes, absolutely…
[2007/11/26 18:45] Filthy Fluno: for example…
[2007/11/26 18:45] Gracie Kendal: which I am starrting to do…
[2007/11/26 18:45] Morris Vig: Scarp – You’re up. What’s on your mind?
[2007/11/26 18:46] Scarp Godenot: Yeah, what is a good size for a decent gallery, 512 seems too small….
[2007/11/26 18:46] Object: Isolde Flamand, say ‘/1 Hide’ to hide me, or ‘/1 Show’ to make me show. Or just right-click and sit on me to use me.
[2007/11/26 18:46] Morris Vig: what type of art, Scarp?
[2007/11/26 18:46] Filthy Fluno: well
[2007/11/26 18:46] Cheen Pitney: 2d its fine
[2007/11/26 18:46] Madcow Cosmos: I have a few pieces under 512 prims
[2007/11/26 18:46] Gracie Kendal: I think, honestly…getting in with a group gallery here is a good way to start
[2007/11/26 18:46] Morris Vig: lol MC
[2007/11/26 18:46] Cheen Pitney: yes
[2007/11/26 18:46] Gracie Kendal: Find out how the advertise
[2007/11/26 18:47] Gracie Kendal: what kind of events they have
[2007/11/26 18:47] Gracie Kendal: do they publicize in SL magazines..etc
[2007/11/26 18:47] Morris Vig: (or don’t have)
[2007/11/26 18:47] Filthy Fluno: heehee
[2007/11/26 18:47] Cheen Pitney: and dont be afraed to offer freebees
[2007/11/26 18:47] Gracie Kendal: yes..Morris
[2007/11/26 18:47] Gracie Kendal: Yes, give away yoru art….
[2007/11/26 18:47] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:47] Max Janick: worked for radiohead
[2007/11/26 18:47] Filthy Fluno: freebies?
[2007/11/26 18:47] Gracie Kendal: LOL true
[2007/11/26 18:47] Cheen Pitney: everyone who sees it might want one
[2007/11/26 18:47] Ludo Merit: Yeah, give away your art, Filthy
[2007/11/26 18:47] Cylindrian Rutabaga: freebies in exchange for what
[2007/11/26 18:47] Max Janick: publicity
[2007/11/26 18:48] Cylindrian Rutabaga: radiohead already is wellknown
[2007/11/26 18:48] Gracie Kendal: absolutely
[2007/11/26 18:48] Cylindrian Rutabaga: jo blow
[2007/11/26 18:48] Filthy Fluno: nope
[2007/11/26 18:48] Cylindrian Rutabaga: maybe not
[2007/11/26 18:48] Gracie Kendal: goes back to word of mouth
[2007/11/26 18:48] Max Janick: they are, but they paid no marketing costs for In Rainbows
[2007/11/26 18:48] Max Janick: yet they had more articles worldwide than anyone else that week
[2007/11/26 18:48] Gracie Kendal: I have people tell me all the time…my friend has a couple pieces…where is that for sale???
[2007/11/26 18:48] Gracie Kendal: I love that
[2007/11/26 18:48] Filthy Fluno: i have got feedback that…
[2007/11/26 18:49] Filthy Fluno: if its free? is it valuable?
[2007/11/26 18:49] Gracie Kendal: another thing we havent talked about is copies vs originals…
[2007/11/26 18:49] Cheen Pitney: well the prime stuff aint free
[2007/11/26 18:49] Filthy Fluno: let’s talk about the whole freebie thing though
[2007/11/26 18:49] Filthy Fluno: seriously
[2007/11/26 18:49] Gracie Kendal: very my art valuable..because I sell copies….
[2007/11/26 18:49] Gracie Kendal: ?
[2007/11/26 18:49] Kurisuti Kohime is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:49] Cheen Pitney: its like an appetizer
[2007/11/26 18:49] Cheen Pitney: you like this free one
[2007/11/26 18:50] Filthy Fluno: yes.. but what if someone is in LOVE with the free one
[2007/11/26 18:50] Cheen Pitney: wait till you see what you get for lindes
[2007/11/26 18:50] Filthy Fluno: and the expensive one sucks to them
[2007/11/26 18:50] Gracie Kendal: Ans will my new stuff be valuable if I start sellling limited editions?
[2007/11/26 18:50] Ludo Merit: Lucky art buyer
[2007/11/26 18:50] Madcow Cosmos: If peple want to carry around an advertizement for me I’m not one to complain
[2007/11/26 18:50] Filthy Fluno: lol
[2007/11/26 18:50] Cheen Pitney: as long as thy dont make babies hahaha
[2007/11/26 18:50] Filthy Fluno: what are they advertising i guess is imporatnt
[2007/11/26 18:50] Luthien Biziou is Online
[2007/11/26 18:51] Filthy Fluno: i used to do stuff for free in exchange for “promotions”
[2007/11/26 18:51] Filthy Fluno: and i’d say 90% of the time it didn’t work
[2007/11/26 18:51] Ludo Merit nods.
[2007/11/26 18:51] Morris Vig: huh – who knew?
[2007/11/26 18:51] Filthy Fluno: again… this SL art scene isn’t for everyone!
[2007/11/26 18:51] Richarrd Larsson is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:51] Morris Vig: Apologies to Alberto – apparently I didn’t get his IM. Must be the O.B. lag. Alberto – please go ahead….
[2007/11/26 18:51] Cheen Pitney: well you have a good one going now
[2007/11/26 18:51] Alberto Salomon: thanks, what do you think is more importqnt now, to import RL art into SL or th eother way round?
[2007/11/26 18:52] Morris Vig: can you do it the other way around?
[2007/11/26 18:52] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:52] Filthy Fluno: i do it
[2007/11/26 18:52] Cheen Pitney: well agaain its different for sculptors
[2007/11/26 18:52] Morris Vig: good point Cheen
[2007/11/26 18:52] Cheen Pitney: we are here and here only…mostly
[2007/11/26 18:52] Cheen Pitney: check my blog lol
[2007/11/26 18:52] Madcow Cosmos: Stupid RL gravity is always getting me down
[2007/11/26 18:52] Filthy Fluno: i make art about SL stuff.. import it into SL.. then export it into RL
[2007/11/26 18:52] Morris Vig: URL, please, Cheen?
[2007/11/26 18:52] Morris Vig: lol MC.
[2007/11/26 18:53] You: they have CNC machines that can replicate sculptures from virtual worlds.
[2007/11/26 18:53] Gracie Kendal: yea, but thats different Filthy
[2007/11/26 18:53] Gracie Kendal: because its still RL work
[2007/11/26 18:53] Cheen Pitney: in my profile
[2007/11/26 18:53] Filthy Fluno: its RL but would not exist without SL
[2007/11/26 18:53] Gracie Kendal: I have used SL images in my collages….
[2007/11/26 18:53] Gracie Kendal: but..they would exist a different way otherwise
[2007/11/26 18:53] Cheen Pitney: I urge you to check out Filthys method
[2007/11/26 18:53] Cheen Pitney: very cool
[2007/11/26 18:53] Gracie Kendal: they woudl still exxist tho
[2007/11/26 18:54] Filthy Fluno: gracie.. i totally disagree with that my friend
[2007/11/26 18:54] Filthy Fluno: it would be something else
[2007/11/26 18:54] Gracie Kendal: Well, I did say that…but yo woudl just have other inspiraation
[2007/11/26 18:54] Gracie Kendal: geesh..typo lag
[2007/11/26 18:55] Filthy Fluno: i’m not laggin… i’m just a little hopped up on the tequila
[2007/11/26 18:55] Filthy Fluno: weeeeeee!
[2007/11/26 18:55] Filthy Fluno: oh! and another very important thing
[2007/11/26 18:55] Filthy Fluno: don’t take stuff TOOOO seriously in here
[2007/11/26 18:55] You decline MMAC – THE JAZZ LINK – Lobby Entry from A group member named Dash Renoir.
[2007/11/26 18:55] Filthy Fluno: i mean
[2007/11/26 18:55] Filthy Fluno: a sense of humor and giving people the benefit of the doubt is crucial sometimes
[2007/11/26 18:55] Filthy Fluno: like that dude that was here earlier
[2007/11/26 18:55] Cheen Pitney: I agree
[2007/11/26 18:55] Filthy Fluno: metalmouth
[2007/11/26 18:56] Filthy Fluno: is he still here?
[2007/11/26 18:56] Cheen Pitney: hes madcows cousin
[2007/11/26 18:56] Gracie Kendal: lol
[2007/11/26 18:56] Cheen Pitney: hahaha
[2007/11/26 18:56] Madcow Cosmos: SL it just another media I don’t know how important it is to translate things between different one. Do we really need to dance about every painting? Importing and exporting art is great as long as it meetsa need to do so
[2007/11/26 18:56] Salandras Adamant is Online
[2007/11/26 18:56] Morris Vig: agreed, MC…’s the beauty and creativity of art.
[2007/11/26 18:56] Filthy Fluno: i don’t agree with that
[2007/11/26 18:57] Filthy Fluno: SL is not just another media
[2007/11/26 18:57] Filthy Fluno: it has millions of people in here
[2007/11/26 18:57] Filthy Fluno: interacting
[2007/11/26 18:57] Gracie Kendal: It Absolutely is

(i ended up crashing right here– i apologize for any missed information)

[2007/11/26 18:59] Cheen Pitney: from all over the world
[2007/11/26 18:59] Morris Vig: Let’s open up the floor one last time. We’ve got a wonderful panel, and they’re interesting in answering your questions and providing insight. Don’t miss the opportunty!
[2007/11/26 18:59] Morris Vig: Let’s try this
[2007/11/26 18:59] Cheen Pitney: MC has gone turtle
[2007/11/26 18:59] Terje Chengpang: thank you all for putting this together!
[2007/11/26 18:59] Gracie Kendal: Your very welcome
[2007/11/26 19:00] Gracie Kendal: I will say one thing…..
[2007/11/26 19:00] Gracie Kendal: Success in Sl is about working together…
[2007/11/26 19:00] Morris Vig: If you had 1 suggestion to leave people with to be “more successful” in SL art – what would it be?
[2007/11/26 19:00] Morris Vig: there ya go, G
[2007/11/26 19:00] Thinkerer Melville is Offline
[2007/11/26 19:00] Gracie Kendal: Collaboration amngst the gallerys….
[2007/11/26 19:00] Paddy Bracken is Online
[2007/11/26 19:00] Thinkerer Melville is Online
[2007/11/26 19:00] Gracie Kendal: amongst the artists…
[2007/11/26 19:00] Gracie Kendal: and the patrons
[2007/11/26 19:00] Gracie Kendal: thats what makes Sl successful..and hopefully will contnue to do so
[2007/11/26 19:00] Filthy Fluno: i’d say make the best art you know how and never shutup about it
[2007/11/26 19:01] Morris Vig: great point
[2007/11/26 19:01] Morris Vig: Cheen, got a pointer?
[2007/11/26 19:01] Filthy Fluno: maybe that’s two things
[2007/11/26 19:01] Cheen Pitney: id say enjoy what you are doing
[2007/11/26 19:01] Scarp Godenot: So is it more important to put your gallery in a sim with other artists do you think?
[2007/11/26 19:01] Filthy Fluno: ha!
[2007/11/26 19:01] Filthy Fluno: what up brian
[2007/11/26 19:01] Cheen Pitney: and if you make linden more power ti ]o ya
[2007/11/26 19:01] Madcow Cosmos: Darn crashed before I could hear filthy’s response
[2007/11/26 19:01] Filthy Fluno: madcow
[2007/11/26 19:01] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 19:02] Filthy Fluno: i said just keep your eye on the prize… make the best art you can and don’t shutup about it
[2007/11/26 19:02] Morris Vig: got an anonymous question from the gallery: just how do you 4 define “art” in SL?
[2007/11/26 19:02] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 19:02] Morris Vig: yeah, leave the softballs for last
[2007/11/26 19:02] Gracie Kendal: There are so many answers to that
[2007/11/26 19:02] Gracie Kendal: Sl is a piece of art in itself
[2007/11/26 19:02] Madcow Cosmos: Art to me is any creation proccess that couldn’t be defined as craftsmanship alone.
[2007/11/26 19:03] Ina Centaur is Offline
[2007/11/26 19:03] Gracie Kendal: You cant even say that anymore Madcow
[2007/11/26 19:03] Morris Vig: so RL…SL….doesn’t matter, MC?
[2007/11/26 19:03] Cheen Pitney: yes its all art here
[2007/11/26 19:03] Filthy Fluno: art makes me feel different than i did before i seen it
[2007/11/26 19:03] Gracie Kendal: Its much more
[2007/11/26 19:03] Filthy Fluno: in RL and SL
[2007/11/26 19:03] Havente Waydelich is Online
[2007/11/26 19:04] Ina Centaur is Online
[2007/11/26 19:04] Morris Vig: good points all
[2007/11/26 19:04] Madcow Cosmos: RL SL are part of the same same picture
[2007/11/26 19:04] Gail Kilara is Offline
[2007/11/26 19:04] Gracie Kendal: Yes, for me too
[2007/11/26 19:04] Gracie Kendal: I don’t hide who aiI am
[2007/11/26 19:05] Morris Vig: ….and I had budgeted an hour, more or less. Looks like we reached that point. Let’s all show our panelists our appreciation!
[2007/11/26 19:05] Cheen Pitney: thanks for coming folks
[2007/11/26 19:05] Terje Chengpang: wootz!
[2007/11/26 19:05] Sunn Thunders: claps…
[2007/11/26 19:05] Morris Vig: yes, thank you…
[2007/11/26 19:05] Sabine Stonebender rang Sabine Stonebender’s Bell!
[2007/11/26 19:05] Gracie Kendal: Thank you very much fir listening to our ranting …hehe
[2007/11/26 19:05] You: hooray!
[2007/11/26 19:05] Cheen Pitney: hahah
[2007/11/26 19:05] Jordan Morgenrote: thanks u guys!
[2007/11/26 19:05] PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: thank thank thank you!!!
[2007/11/26 19:05] Filthy Fluno: i say.. thank you Morris
[2007/11/26 19:05] Scarp Godenot: Let me ask again: do you think it is important to form gallery districts in the same sim or can you successfully locate anywhere?
[2007/11/26 19:05] Corcosman Voom: Thank you all very much!!!
[2007/11/26 19:05] Madcow Cosmos: Thanks for coming all
[2007/11/26 19:05] Callipygian Christensen: thanks panelists
[2007/11/26 19:05] Cheen Pitney: many of you could have been up here
[2007/11/26 19:05] Filthy Fluno: THANK YOU MORRIS!
[2007/11/26 19:05] Filthy Fluno: THANK YOU MORRIS
[2007/11/26 19:05] Morris Vig: In wrapping up, let me share a thought about success from my point of view. I’m all about bringing people together. Whether its an event, a Christmas Tree, or an ArtTalk, it’s enjoyable. So, for that, I thank you all for coming. This event, and the dialogue generated, is a success in my mind. Enjoy your evening!
[2007/11/26 19:06] IanLee Patton: hoora
[2007/11/26 19:06] Filthy Fluno: morris
[2007/11/26 19:06] Gracie Kendal: Perfect Morris :))
[2007/11/26 19:06] Terje Chengpang: rock on SL artists!
[2007/11/26 19:06] Filthy Fluno: where can we get the transcript
[2007/11/26 19:06] Cheen Pitney: thanks Morris
[2007/11/26 19:06] Filthy Fluno: for people who couldn’t make it
[2007/11/26 19:06] Morris Vig: I’ll post it on my blog
[2007/11/26 19:06] Morris Vig:
[2007/11/26 19:06] Delia Lake: thank you Morris
[2007/11/26 19:06] Alberto Salomon: great, Morris !!!
[2007/11/26 19:06] Gracie Kendal: Scarp, you can Im us..and we can maybe answer that
[2007/11/26 19:07] Gracie Kendal: or give you our opinion
[2007/11/26 19:07] Morris Vig: Scrap, I’ve got some notions on that
[2007/11/26 19:07] Morris Vig: I think that there’s value in clustering together
[2007/11/26 19:07] Morris Vig: partnering, if you will
[2007/11/26 19:07] Scarp Godenot: Thanks I will
[2007/11/26 19:07] Gracie Kendal: Absolutely
[2007/11/26 19:07] Morris Vig: Look at this place….it’s a bit of a hub. But so is Xander’s place…or Diegoland’s collective.
[2007/11/26 19:08] Filthy Fluno: cheen
[2007/11/26 19:08] Morris Vig: Lots of art, lots to see…
[2007/11/26 19:08] Filthy Fluno: where you from?
[2007/11/26 19:08] Gracie Kendal: yea..Artropolis
[2007/11/26 19:08] Cheen Pitney: Im in the Canadian Rockies
[2007/11/26 19:08] Corcosman Voom: They are attractions for viewers
[2007/11/26 19:08] Madcow Cosmos: Vast stretches of of strip malls punctuated by galleries
[2007/11/26 19:08] Cheen Pitney: col d here hahaha
[2007/11/26 19:08] Filthy Fluno: would your agent be interested in new artists you think?
[2007/11/26 19:09] Filthy Fluno: i’m always lookin
[2007/11/26 19:09] Filthy Fluno: haven’t found one i’ve liked
[2007/11/26 19:09] Morris Vig wonders why the pier dropped 1/2m.
[2007/11/26 19:09] Filthy Fluno: morris
[2007/11/26 19:09] Cheen Pitney: hmmm I will ask but its sculpture he deals in
[2007/11/26 19:09] Filthy Fluno: that would be my fat ass dropping the dock
[2007/11/26 19:09] Alizarin Goldflake: oh dont ask why ..
[2007/11/26 19:09] Madcow Cosmos: Sorry Morris my avatars load will do that
[2007/11/26 19:09] Cheen Pitney: thanks
[2007/11/26 19:09] Filthy Fluno: oh ok
[2007/11/26 19:09] Cheen Pitney: Gracie
[2007/11/26 19:09] Corcosman Voom: Good turnout tonight, Morris
[2007/11/26 19:09] Filthy Fluno: perhaps he knows another agent
[2007/11/26 19:09] Cheen Pitney: but ya never know
[2007/11/26 19:09] Gracie Kendal: Thx Ceen 🙂
[2007/11/26 19:09] Morris Vig: lol filthy