Archive for November, 2007


Art Panel @ Oyster Bay: Transcript

November 27, 2007

Recently in Oyster Bay, artists Madcow Cosmos, Flithly Fluno, Cheen Pitney and Gracie Kendal with Moderator Morris Vig got together to discuss “success in Second Life art”. Here’s the transcript, in case you missed it!

[2007/11/26 18:01] Morris Vig: Cheen, MC, filthy, come on down!
[2007/11/26 18:01] Object: Max Janick, say ‘/1 Hide’ to hide me, or ‘/1 Show’ to make me show. Or just right-click and sit on me to use me.
[2007/11/26 18:01] Filthy Fluno: tell that to my wife metalhead
[2007/11/26 18:02] Ludo Merit: Better too high than too low
[2007/11/26 18:02] Gracie Kendal: Jordan!!!!!
[2007/11/26 18:02] Filthy Fluno: ok
[2007/11/26 18:02] metalhead Cosmos: lololololol
[2007/11/26 18:02] Morris Vig: Hey J!
[2007/11/26 18:02] Morris Vig: Ever have a personalized poseball?
[2007/11/26 18:02] Morris Vig: lol
[2007/11/26 18:02] Cheen Pitney: o good placecards
[2007/11/26 18:02] Isolde Flamand: hello Tricia!
[2007/11/26 18:02] Xander Ruttan: Hi everyone!
[2007/11/26 18:02] metalhead Cosmos: yep
[2007/11/26 18:02] Tricia Aferdita: Hi Isolde!
[2007/11/26 18:02] Isolde Flamand: Hi Xander
[2007/11/26 18:02] Cheen Pitney: guess I know my place
[2007/11/26 18:02] Tricia Aferdita: Hi Everyone!
[2007/11/26 18:02] metalhead Cosmos: I have alll kinds a toys
[2007/11/26 18:02] Gracie Kendal: LOL well….it depends 😛
[2007/11/26 18:02] Xander Ruttan: hi isolde
[2007/11/26 18:03] Morris Vig: OK let’s get this party started. A couple ground rules. We’re gonna use text chat so we can keep a transcript. Please respect the speaker. If you havea question, please IM me and I’ll call on you.
[2007/11/26 18:03] Max Janick: was that someone’s mic? 😮
[2007/11/26 18:03] Sasun Steinbeck is Online
[2007/11/26 18:03] Cylindrian Rutabaga: oh no
[2007/11/26 18:03] Cylindrian Rutabaga: Filthy’s SINGING
[2007/11/26 18:03] metalhead Cosmos: sorry if you got a “burst” of Van halen
[2007/11/26 18:03] Max Janick: yay filthy!
[2007/11/26 18:03] Cylindrian Rutabaga: he’s supposed to be naked when singing
[2007/11/26 18:03] metalhead Cosmos: I hit the wrong button
[2007/11/26 18:03] Morris Vig: Getting started, I want to welcome you all. Let’s thank Enniv Zarf and Cyanide Seelowe for spurring discussion of this topic
[2007/11/26 18:04] Cylindrian Rutabaga: that was beautiful!!!
[2007/11/26 18:04] Filthy Fluno: k
[2007/11/26 18:04] Cylindrian Rutabaga: ENCORE!!!
[2007/11/26 18:04] Filthy Fluno: only 1$?
[2007/11/26 18:04] Filthy Fluno: ouch
[2007/11/26 18:04] Max Janick: ENCORE!
[2007/11/26 18:04] Morris Vig: the “Best of SL Art” has been a topic of conversation, but there are some fun, fundamental isuses…like what makes you the best? and, by extension, what makes you successful?
[2007/11/26 18:04] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:04] Gracie Kendal: Is that was this talk was for?
[2007/11/26 18:04] Morris Vig: So let’s let our esteemed panel kick it off. How do you folks define success in SL art?
[2007/11/26 18:05] Morris Vig: um yeah kinda G
[2007/11/26 18:05] Teofila Matova is Online
[2007/11/26 18:05] metalhead Cosmos: well i would think income amount determines success in SL….just like RL
[2007/11/26 18:05] Gracie Kendal: I have no idea 😛
[2007/11/26 18:05] Filthy Fluno: metalhead
[2007/11/26 18:05] Filthy Fluno: that is a good point
[2007/11/26 18:05] Max Janick: You honestly can’t define ‘best’ in objective terms unless you gauge success as monetary gain. And that opens a whole chestnut of controversy
[2007/11/26 18:05] AldoManutio Abruzzo is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:06] Gracie Kendal: I think success and best are two different things
[2007/11/26 18:06] metalhead Cosmos: I have GREAT 3d art…..but I am unsuccesful because I do not sell very many
[2007/11/26 18:06] Filthy Fluno: me too
[2007/11/26 18:06] Filthy Fluno: how about panelists get to comment
[2007/11/26 18:06] Filthy Fluno: then audience
[2007/11/26 18:06] Filthy Fluno: MAX?!!!
[2007/11/26 18:06] Morris Vig: fire away filthy
[2007/11/26 18:06] Filthy Fluno: ahemmmmm
[2007/11/26 18:06] Filthy Fluno: ok
[2007/11/26 18:06] Morris Vig: how do you measure success?
[2007/11/26 18:06] Filthy Fluno: where was i
[2007/11/26 18:06] Filthy Fluno: yes
[2007/11/26 18:06] Max Janick: I’ll agree, but only if you sing again
[2007/11/26 18:07] Filthy Fluno: selling is important if that’s your goal
[2007/11/26 18:07] metalhead Cosmos: lol
[2007/11/26 18:07] Max Janick: ❤
[2007/11/26 18:07] Filthy Fluno: i will talk about selling
[2007/11/26 18:07] Filthy Fluno: since that is my prioirty in here… i gotta pay my mortgage by selling art
[2007/11/26 18:07] Gracie Kendal: for me its not about selling
[2007/11/26 18:07] Cheen Pitney: I think it depends on who is defining it someone else or the artis him or her self
[2007/11/26 18:07] Gracie Kendal: its getting my work and ‘name’ out to a larger audience
[2007/11/26 18:07] metalhead Cosmos: true
[2007/11/26 18:08] Filthy Fluno: yes.. so let’s just speak to what our individual goals are
[2007/11/26 18:08] Gracie Kendal: I ws averaging 40-50 sales a month
[2007/11/26 18:08] metalhead Cosmos: I have been told by some of the most succesful ppl in SL that my art is top notch and I should be doing really well….but again…..I’m not
[2007/11/26 18:08] Blackthorn Hare: Isn’t this discussion going to come down to “We all define success on our own terms?”
[2007/11/26 18:08] Gracie Kendal: of course, we all know that has considerably slowed down
[2007/11/26 18:08] Filthy Fluno: ok
[2007/11/26 18:08] Filthy Fluno: first
[2007/11/26 18:09] Gracie Kendal: But success for me is using my art for charity…
[2007/11/26 18:09] Carrie Tatsu is Online
[2007/11/26 18:09] Cheen Pitney: honorable ideal Grace
[2007/11/26 18:09] Filthy Fluno: i’ll come out and say that anyone who says they have the best, or most successful this or that is usually full of shit
[2007/11/26 18:09] metalhead Cosmos: I was trying to supplement my retirement with art in SL and online
[2007/11/26 18:09] Filthy Fluno: there’s too much criteria
[2007/11/26 18:09] Filthy Fluno: contests…
[2007/11/26 18:09] Filthy Fluno: blah
[2007/11/26 18:09] Filthy Fluno: best of SL
[2007/11/26 18:09] Filthy Fluno: is caca
[2007/11/26 18:09] Failius Falta is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:10] Kafka Joubert: throwing fancy french aorunds i see
[2007/11/26 18:10] Filthy Fluno: its all about longevity
[2007/11/26 18:10] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:10] Filthy Fluno: perservearance
[2007/11/26 18:10] Filthy Fluno: and making the best art you can
[2007/11/26 18:10] Madcow Cosmos: Contests are not about winning so much as name recognition
[2007/11/26 18:10] metalhead Cosmos: well i consider someone who clears $8,000k US pretty damn successful
[2007/11/26 18:10] Morris Vig: but you have to agree, Filthy, that the notion of success is worth discussing, only because the nature of SL really makes it different than RL.
[2007/11/26 18:10] Filthy Fluno: that’s fine
[2007/11/26 18:10] Ludo Merit: who?
[2007/11/26 18:10] Cheen Pitney: woo who does that
[2007/11/26 18:10] metalhead Cosmos: thats weekly btw
[2007/11/26 18:10] Filthy Fluno: who is doing that metalhead
[2007/11/26 18:11] metalhead Cosmos: my buddy Ninja Petion
[2007/11/26 18:11] Morris Vig: Nice gig.
[2007/11/26 18:11] Cheen Pitney: well count me in on that gravy trai
[2007/11/26 18:11] metalhead Cosmos: he got me into SL to design for him
[2007/11/26 18:11] Gracie Kendal: selling art?
[2007/11/26 18:11] Filthy Fluno: i agree morris
[2007/11/26 18:11] metalhead Cosmos: No…he owns an island and a mall
[2007/11/26 18:11] Gracie Kendal: I have never heard of him
[2007/11/26 18:11] Filthy Fluno: but.. .who is the most succesfful?
[2007/11/26 18:11] Gracie Kendal: well..thats different
[2007/11/26 18:11] Filthy Fluno: who cares?
[2007/11/26 18:11] metalhead Cosmos: clothes shoes jewelry etc
[2007/11/26 18:11] Filthy Fluno: what can make people successful is the key
[2007/11/26 18:11] Gracie Kendal: thats art in its own right
[2007/11/26 18:11] metalhead Cosmos: to ME ….he is successful at SL
[2007/11/26 18:11] Gracie Kendal: but now what we are talkign about
[2007/11/26 18:11] Filthy Fluno: ok
[2007/11/26 18:12] Filthy Fluno: but.. i’ve never heard of him
[2007/11/26 18:12] Filthy Fluno: as far as i know
[2007/11/26 18:12] Cheen Pitney: and he dont care
[2007/11/26 18:12] metalhead Cosmos: Digital Dragon Designs?
[2007/11/26 18:12] Filthy Fluno: you are him
[2007/11/26 18:12] Cheen Pitney: hahaha
[2007/11/26 18:12] Morris Vig: We’ve got some real definite opinions on this. Financially, that’s a criteria.
[2007/11/26 18:12] Morris Vig: What about word of mouth?
[2007/11/26 18:12] Gracie Kendal: Absolutely
[2007/11/26 18:12] metalhead Cosmos: what?……are you on crack or something?
[2007/11/26 18:12] Cheen Pitney: well accolades are nice
[2007/11/26 18:12] Filthy Fluno: saying that someone sold $8k of stuff in SL
[2007/11/26 18:12] Gracie Kendal: Its who ya know :))
[2007/11/26 18:12] Filthy Fluno: is pointless
[2007/11/26 18:13] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:13] Shawn Beaumont: is everyone supposed to turn off voice?
[2007/11/26 18:13] RITCHEY Jacobus is Online
[2007/11/26 18:13] Morris Vig waits for Gracie to bring up the SL Art Mafia….
[2007/11/26 18:13] Gracie Kendal: Me, you started it!!!!
[2007/11/26 18:13] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:13] Gracie Kendal: yoru the godfather arent you?
[2007/11/26 18:13] Madcow Cosmos: Word of mouth is a ends to a means. Its not about recognition so much as what that regogition brings
[2007/11/26 18:13] Filthy Fluno: success for me is for everyone to know that I am Filthy FLuno, avatar of the RL artist Jeffrey Lipsky
[2007/11/26 18:13] Morris Vig: Yes, we’re using text chat to ensure a transcript
[2007/11/26 18:13] Mark Cassini is Online
[2007/11/26 18:14] Morris Vig: and you use SL to sell RL art, right, Filthy?
[2007/11/26 18:14] Filthy Fluno: for people to know that the art i make is important
[2007/11/26 18:14] Gracie Kendal: yes, but..for me its about getting my passion out there…
[2007/11/26 18:14] Cheen Pitney: and 2d artists have it there
[2007/11/26 18:14] Filthy Fluno: yes i do morris
[2007/11/26 18:14] Filthy Fluno: i’ve tried other ways
[2007/11/26 18:14] Cheen Pitney: it translates int rl much better
[2007/11/26 18:14] Filthy Fluno: SL works the best for me to hook up opportunites and sell art
[2007/11/26 18:14] Morris Vig: get your passion out there, Gracie?
[2007/11/26 18:14] metalhead Cosmos: wow you seem like a self centered , egomaniac
[2007/11/26 18:14] Gracie Kendal: I woudl love to use SL as a vehicle to get into a RL gallery
[2007/11/26 18:14] Filthy Fluno: metalhead
[2007/11/26 18:14] metalhead Cosmos: yes?
[2007/11/26 18:15] Filthy Fluno: you’ve done most of the talking here
[2007/11/26 18:15] Cheen Pitney: the internet is your gallery
[2007/11/26 18:15] metalhead Cosmos: and?
[2007/11/26 18:15] Lanai Jarrico is Online
[2007/11/26 18:15] Morris Vig: would you find getting into a RL gallery as a point of success, Gracie?
[2007/11/26 18:15] Gracie Kendal: absolutely
[2007/11/26 18:15] metalhead Cosmos: your keyboard works right?
[2007/11/26 18:15] Filthy Fluno: and the four of us on stage were invited to present
[2007/11/26 18:15] Filthy Fluno: you’re not letting us
[2007/11/26 18:15] Filthy Fluno: there needs to be some kind of organization here
[2007/11/26 18:15] Gracie Kendal: for me thats part of it….
[2007/11/26 18:15] Filthy Fluno: so please let other’s talk
[2007/11/26 18:16] Filthy Fluno: and don’t name call
[2007/11/26 18:16] Gracie Kendal: I also find success in bing able to talk about my work with people from all over the world
[2007/11/26 18:16] Gracie Kendal: which SL provides
[2007/11/26 18:16] Morris Vig: Yes, thank you Filthy
[2007/11/26 18:16] metalhead Cosmos: sorry ….part of my military “take charge” attitude
[2007/11/26 18:16] Settezin Zabelin is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:16] Cheen Pitney: yes that is good
[2007/11/26 18:16] Filthy Fluno: meh
[2007/11/26 18:16] Morris Vig: Cheen – build on that, please
[2007/11/26 18:16] MadelMan Benelli is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:16] Cheen Pitney: to get lots of l=folks to see your work
[2007/11/26 18:16] Cheen Pitney: I get great joy when someone Ims
[2007/11/26 18:17] Morris Vig: exposure, a good thing indeed
[2007/11/26 18:17] Cheen Pitney: and say love your stuff
[2007/11/26 18:17] Gracie Kendal: absolutely
[2007/11/26 18:17] Gracie Kendal: people that you dont know
[2007/11/26 18:17] Filthy Fluno: yes.. i agree
[2007/11/26 18:17] metalhead Cosmos: so ….how does one go about becomeing MORE succesful if there goal is monetary achivement?
[2007/11/26 18:17] Gracie Kendal: its an amazing feeling
[2007/11/26 18:17] Cheen Pitney: from all over the world
[2007/11/26 18:17] Corcosman Voom: Oy
[2007/11/26 18:17] Morris Vig: Metalhead, please let the panelists talk
[2007/11/26 18:17] Filthy Fluno: that’s a good question metalhead
[2007/11/26 18:17] Callipygian Christensen: metalhead, shutting up and listening is a good start imo
[2007/11/26 18:17] Filthy Fluno: can i try to answer it?
[2007/11/26 18:17] Morris Vig: Sure
[2007/11/26 18:17] Madcow Cosmos: Better you than me filthy
[2007/11/26 18:17] Filthy Fluno: ok…so
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: people send me im’s say they like it
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: me as in.. the artist
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: i collect these names
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: and at the end of each week
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: contact them
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: same with my visitor counter
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: follow up is crucial
[2007/11/26 18:18] Cheen Pitney: yes
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: “you came to my gallery, you said you liked.. let’s talk
[2007/11/26 18:18] Filthy Fluno: just like RL
[2007/11/26 18:18] Gracie Kendal: Absolutely
[2007/11/26 18:19] Filthy Fluno: you ALWAYS gotta follow up
[2007/11/26 18:19] Filthy Fluno: if not
[2007/11/26 18:19] Ludo Merit: Oh, does that bring the price down?
[2007/11/26 18:19] Cheen Pitney: up hahahah
[2007/11/26 18:19] Filthy Fluno: does what bring the price down?
[2007/11/26 18:19] IanLee Patton: hehehe
[2007/11/26 18:19] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:19] Morris Vig: heh
[2007/11/26 18:19] Filthy Fluno: whooooosh.. over my head
[2007/11/26 18:19] Ludo Merit: If I say I like something does that somehowe make me able to afford it?
[2007/11/26 18:19] Morris Vig: So does that get you sales – RL or sl?
[2007/11/26 18:19] Filthy Fluno: no
[2007/11/26 18:19] Filthy Fluno: liking and affording are two different things
[2007/11/26 18:19] Cheen Pitney: makes good vibrations
[2007/11/26 18:20] Filthy Fluno: but… its a good start
[2007/11/26 18:20] Cheen Pitney: gtsyour name out positively
[2007/11/26 18:20] Ludo Merit: So you can follow up with me and I still won’t buy.
[2007/11/26 18:20] Morris Vig: so relationships – that’s part of the package
[2007/11/26 18:20] Filthy Fluno: i could care less if people llike the art i make
[2007/11/26 18:20] Filthy Fluno: if i cared.. .the art wouldn’t be the same
[2007/11/26 18:20] Cheen Pitney: but you may tell a friend
[2007/11/26 18:20] Filthy Fluno: i’d just churn out the same caca
[2007/11/26 18:20] Filthy Fluno: and keep it safe
[2007/11/26 18:20] Faust Milev is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:20] Filthy Fluno: the fact is that not every artist is gonna make it in here
[2007/11/26 18:21] Filthy Fluno: actually… the minority will
[2007/11/26 18:21] metalhead Cosmos: so what your saying is “networking” is the key
[2007/11/26 18:21] Filthy Fluno: yes metalhead.. networking is huge
[2007/11/26 18:21] Cheen Pitney: get your name out there
[2007/11/26 18:21] Filthy Fluno: nothing really surprising about that
[2007/11/26 18:21] Madcow Cosmos: By make it do you mean in the financial sense only?
[2007/11/26 18:21] Cheen Pitney: there are so many folks here
[2007/11/26 18:21] Filthy Fluno: i mean to make it as in… be able to sustain yourself as an artist
[2007/11/26 18:21] Cheen Pitney: catch as many as you can
[2007/11/26 18:21] Filthy Fluno: some people need compliments
[2007/11/26 18:21] Filthy Fluno: and need to be liked
[2007/11/26 18:22] Filthy Fluno: and need their art to be liked
[2007/11/26 18:22] Cheen Pitney: the wider you cast the net
[2007/11/26 18:22] Morris Vig: OK Madcow, pipe in. You’re a prolific guy. What happened to make you think you might be successful in SL art?
[2007/11/26 18:23] Corcosman Voom: Crashed?
[2007/11/26 18:23] Madcow Cosmos: Well My goal has nothing to do with finance, I’m about 3 30 item vendors behind in even getting my things to market
[2007/11/26 18:23] MadelMan Benelli is Online
[2007/11/26 18:23] Faust Milev is Online
[2007/11/26 18:23] Morris Vig: then what’s the goal for you?
[2007/11/26 18:23] Cheen Pitney: beauty
[2007/11/26 18:23] Cheen Pitney: bony beauty
[2007/11/26 18:23] Alander Starostin: wow
[2007/11/26 18:23] Madcow Cosmos: My goal was to share my imagination with others and keep the virtual world as wierd as my personal one
[2007/11/26 18:23] Alander Starostin: hi every body
[2007/11/26 18:23] Filthy Fluno: so cheen.. you don’t need the $$ to survive in RL
[2007/11/26 18:23] Gracie Kendal: Yes
[2007/11/26 18:24] Cheen Pitney: well I must say it helps
[2007/11/26 18:24] Richarrd Larsson is Online
[2007/11/26 18:24] Cheen Pitney: dont pay the bills but
[2007/11/26 18:24] Madcow Cosmos: I don’t even need my name attached to things but without recognition its hard to open doors
[2007/11/26 18:24] Filthy Fluno: so what makes you successful panelists?
[2007/11/26 18:24] Morris Vig: Gracie, you market your works and your galleries as well as any artist. What drives you?
[2007/11/26 18:24] Filthy Fluno: what are you doing to be successful here?
[2007/11/26 18:24] Filthy Fluno: sorry morris
[2007/11/26 18:24] Morris Vig: np filthy
[2007/11/26 18:25] Filthy Fluno: didn’t mean to jump in there
[2007/11/26 18:25] Morris Vig: it’s all about dialogue
[2007/11/26 18:25] cypress Rosewood is Online
[2007/11/26 18:25] Gracie Kendal: definitely isnt the money…LOL
[2007/11/26 18:25] Gracie Kendal: I knew when I becaame an artist..that I would be I got my degree in Art History…
[2007/11/26 18:25] Gracie Kendal: but..I LOVE art
[2007/11/26 18:25] Gracie Kendal: I am here…and I show my works..because of that love
[2007/11/26 18:25] Cheen Pitney: and it shows
[2007/11/26 18:25] Filthy Fluno: gracie
[2007/11/26 18:25] Morris Vig: clearly
[2007/11/26 18:26] Cheen Pitney: you hold true
[2007/11/26 18:26] Gracie Kendal: Thank you 🙂
[2007/11/26 18:26] Filthy Fluno: let’s say you get that killer dream job at a museum
[2007/11/26 18:26] Filthy Fluno: in RL
[2007/11/26 18:26] Filthy Fluno: and you got no more time for SL
[2007/11/26 18:26] Filthy Fluno: what happens then?
[2007/11/26 18:26] Gracie Kendal: My ultimate dream job….honestly…..
[2007/11/26 18:26] Gracie Kendal: is to be a full time artist…
[2007/11/26 18:26] Gracie Kendal: not rich…
[2007/11/26 18:26] Carrie Tatsu is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:26] Gracie Kendal: but being able to live off pof creating
[2007/11/26 18:26] Morris Vig: a reasonable standard, RL or SL
[2007/11/26 18:26] Cheen Pitney: the pyramid is steep Grace
[2007/11/26 18:26] Gracie Kendal: I will always have tim e for Sl
[2007/11/26 18:27] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:27] Filthy Fluno: that’s good news
[2007/11/26 18:27] Cheen Pitney: only one eric clapton
[2007/11/26 18:27] Filthy Fluno: yes
[2007/11/26 18:27] Gracie Kendal: Yes, exactl CHeen
[2007/11/26 18:27] Madcow Cosmos: I’d rather be dream unemployed than have a dream job
[2007/11/26 18:27] Gracie Kendal: LOL yea
[2007/11/26 18:27] Gracie Kendal: I am right now…LOL
[2007/11/26 18:27] Cheen Pitney: that is cool too
[2007/11/26 18:27] Morris Vig: OK Cheen – you don’t own land in SL, right? Is there a financial imperative for you?
[2007/11/26 18:27] Gracie Kendal: so if anyone is hiring :))
[2007/11/26 18:27] Cheen Pitney: of the passion is there
[2007/11/26 18:27] Filthy Fluno: hire her already!
[2007/11/26 18:27] Morris Vig: amen, filthy.
[2007/11/26 18:28] Cheen Pitney: well yes there is
[2007/11/26 18:28] Morris Vig: is that it?
[2007/11/26 18:28] Gracie Kendal: lol
[2007/11/26 18:28] Cheen Pitney: to keep you going hahahaha
[2007/11/26 18:28] Morris Vig: ah – the Vig Fund for O.B. Preservation
[2007/11/26 18:28] Morris Vig: but enough of that
[2007/11/26 18:28] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:28] Cheen Pitney: its in the mix but not the total picture
[2007/11/26 18:29] Morris Vig: flesh it out, please
[2007/11/26 18:29] Cheen Pitney: I was totally amazed when that became viable
[2007/11/26 18:29] Morris Vig: (not the Vig stuff)
[2007/11/26 18:29] cypress Rosewood is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:29] Gracie Kendal: I mean..check out t new Christmans tree that Madcow created….and all of the artist working together…I think that is an amazing collaboration
[2007/11/26 18:29] Cheen Pitney: and I am not rich
[2007/11/26 18:29] Cheen Pitney: by any means
[2007/11/26 18:29] Cheen Pitney: here or there
[2007/11/26 18:29] Gracie Kendal: sorry..cheen 🙂
[2007/11/26 18:29] cypress Rosewood is Online
[2007/11/26 18:30] Cheen Pitney: np
[2007/11/26 18:30] Filthy Fluno: i’d also like to add
[2007/11/26 18:30] Morris Vig: please do
[2007/11/26 18:30] Thinkerer Melville is Online
[2007/11/26 18:30] Filthy Fluno: you gotta educate yourself to the market forces in SL
[2007/11/26 18:30] Filthy Fluno: first and foremost
[2007/11/26 18:30] Morris Vig: talk about that
[2007/11/26 18:30] Filthy Fluno: they’re crazily unstable
[2007/11/26 18:30] Filthy Fluno: but
[2007/11/26 18:30] Morris Vig: how so?
[2007/11/26 18:30] Madcow Cosmos: Filth always sells though, good choice in names.
[2007/11/26 18:30] Filthy Fluno: the best read I’ve found is Slart Magazine’s pdf download
[2007/11/26 18:31] Morris Vig: heh MC
[2007/11/26 18:31] Filthy Fluno: he’s a Real life economist
[2007/11/26 18:31] Filthy Fluno: art collector
[2007/11/26 18:31] Filthy Fluno: artist
[2007/11/26 18:31] Filthy Fluno: administrator
[2007/11/26 18:31] Filthy Fluno: and really grumpy usually.. .the grumpy guys usually know their shit
[2007/11/26 18:31] Morris Vig: this is ArtWorld Market, you mean
[2007/11/26 18:31] Filthy Fluno: yes
[2007/11/26 18:31] Ludo Merit: When is question time?
[2007/11/26 18:31] Madcow Cosmos: You said earlier that you didn’t let others enjoyment of your work effect its creation, so how do you use what you find there filthy?
[2007/11/26 18:32] Morris Vig: we’ll start on questions in a second. If you have any, IM me and I’ll call on you
[2007/11/26 18:32] Morris Vig: FYI – ArtWorld’s blog:
[2007/11/26 18:32] Filthy Fluno: madcow…
[2007/11/26 18:32] Filthy Fluno: its actually
[2007/11/26 18:32] Filthy Fluno: but anyway
[2007/11/26 18:33] Filthy Fluno: i listen to how to make your art grow in value
[2007/11/26 18:33] Filthy Fluno: how to make good decisions
[2007/11/26 18:33] Filthy Fluno: that will help me market my art
[2007/11/26 18:33] Filthy Fluno: as far as my art “being good?
[2007/11/26 18:34] Filthy Fluno: well… i know i work my ass off to make it
[2007/11/26 18:34] Sky Hye: It’s good
[2007/11/26 18:34] Cheen Pitney: ye of the geholder
[2007/11/26 18:34] Morris Vig: agreed
[2007/11/26 18:34] Cheen Pitney: eye
[2007/11/26 18:34] Filthy Fluno: and when i see it, it makes me warm in the pants
[2007/11/26 18:34] Filthy Fluno: so i know its done
[2007/11/26 18:34] Morris Vig: OK got a question from Ludo. Any others with questions, IM me to get in line.
[2007/11/26 18:34] Filthy Fluno: to me….
[2007/11/26 18:35] Morris Vig: whoops sorry filthy
[2007/11/26 18:35] Filthy Fluno: SL is AMAZING place to find art enthusiasts
[2007/11/26 18:35] Cheen Pitney: and you have a good approech F
[2007/11/26 18:35] Filthy Fluno: ok.. .i’m done.. hee hee
[2007/11/26 18:35] Morris Vig: Ludo?
[2007/11/26 18:35] Filthy Fluno: yes i do cheen
[2007/11/26 18:35] You decline When Worlds Collide Radio Show from A group member named cypress Rosewood.
[2007/11/26 18:35] Filthy Fluno: fire away ludo
[2007/11/26 18:35] Ludo Merit: y question. I create things that might be art, might be useful, might be both. Is it worth the trouble to sell them or won’t I make back the cost of the vendors?
[2007/11/26 18:35] Ludo Merit: And what is the time-money tradeoff
[2007/11/26 18:36] Cheen Pitney: you gotta try
[2007/11/26 18:36] Cheen Pitney: if folks buy
[2007/11/26 18:36] Ludo Merit: I have
[2007/11/26 18:36] Filthy Fluno: i’d say you need to be in SL for at least 20 hours a week
[2007/11/26 18:36] Cheen Pitney: keep it up
[2007/11/26 18:36] Filthy Fluno: that’s what seems to work for me
[2007/11/26 18:36] Ludo Merit: I am
[2007/11/26 18:36] Morris Vig: why 20, filthy?
[2007/11/26 18:36] Ludo Merit: But not just working on art
[2007/11/26 18:36] Filthy Fluno: well… you gotta never shutup about what you do
[2007/11/26 18:36] Filthy Fluno: that’s my secret mostly
[2007/11/26 18:36] Ludo Merit: Good point
[2007/11/26 18:36] Cheen Pitney: and be seen
[2007/11/26 18:37] Morris Vig: Be seen?
[2007/11/26 18:37] Cheen Pitney: your art and YOU
[2007/11/26 18:37] Filthy Fluno: i assume everyone will be excited to see my messy drawings about SL people, places, and events
[2007/11/26 18:37] Filthy Fluno: i am my art
[2007/11/26 18:37] Cheen Pitney: once again cast a wide net
[2007/11/26 18:37] Morris Vig: How do YOU “be seen”?
[2007/11/26 18:37] Filthy Fluno: points to his title
[2007/11/26 18:37] Tony Lockjaw is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:37] Ludo Merit: I am being seen herre and I am wearing a product of my art
[2007/11/26 18:37] Filthy Fluno: great! you’re on your way then
[2007/11/26 18:37] Cheen Pitney: and you must get into malls
[2007/11/26 18:37] Cheen Pitney: god forbid
[2007/11/26 18:38] Ludo Merit: Shameless plug
[2007/11/26 18:38] Cheen Pitney: where folks are
[2007/11/26 18:38] Ludo Merit: That costs money
[2007/11/26 18:38] Tony Lockjaw is Online
[2007/11/26 18:38] Cheen Pitney: even if only one in a hundred likes you
[2007/11/26 18:38] Cheen Pitney: agreed
[2007/11/26 18:38] Filthy Fluno: gotta pay to play i think
[2007/11/26 18:38] Cheen Pitney: we were all lucky lets face it
[2007/11/26 18:38] Ludo Merit: I’m way in the hole right now
[2007/11/26 18:38] Cheen Pitney: folks like our stuff
[2007/11/26 18:38] Filthy Fluno: if you’re way in the hole, maybe you need to stop, reassess
[2007/11/26 18:39] Cheen Pitney: are you in slx
[2007/11/26 18:39] Cheen Pitney: its free
[2007/11/26 18:39] Morris Vig: slx =
[2007/11/26 18:39] Ludo Merit: Good point, Cheen
[2007/11/26 18:39] Filthy Fluno: oh!
[2007/11/26 18:39] Filthy Fluno: and my all means.. get a gallery and do events
[2007/11/26 18:39] Cheen Pitney: yes
[2007/11/26 18:39] Filthy Fluno: you gotta do events if you’re an artist
[2007/11/26 18:40] Gracie Kendal: absolutely
[2007/11/26 18:40] Cheen Pitney: and join galleries
[2007/11/26 18:40] Gracie Kendal: and collaborate
[2007/11/26 18:40] Gracie Kendal: with musicians,
[2007/11/26 18:40] Ludo Merit: Are events something like book signings?
[2007/11/26 18:40] Morris Vig: on that front, Xander has a question
[2007/11/26 18:40] Gracie Kendal: can think of
[2007/11/26 18:40] Cheen Pitney: approach owners
[2007/11/26 18:40] Filthy Fluno: yes ludo
[2007/11/26 18:40] Madcow Cosmos: I think you are crazy if you are not at the events, they are fun in and of themselves
[2007/11/26 18:40] Filthy Fluno: fire away xander
[2007/11/26 18:40] Ludo Merit: Thanks all
[2007/11/26 18:40] Filthy Fluno: totally madcow
[2007/11/26 18:40] Morris Vig: (BTW, Xander’s Cetus District was the #1 arts venue in the Corsa Guide poll. congrats!)
[2007/11/26 18:40] Cheen Pitney: I talk to mall owneres and say do you want a massive prim sculpture hahaha
[2007/11/26 18:41] Xander Ruttan: In the RL art world, a very negative perception exists about self promotion. What can SL artists do to counteract the negatives of going it alone without representation?
[2007/11/26 18:41] Scarp Godenot: Good job xander.
[2007/11/26 18:41] Xander Ruttan: thanks Morris
[2007/11/26 18:41] Filthy Fluno: they can stick it out
[2007/11/26 18:41] Cheen Pitney: well I have an agent
[2007/11/26 18:41] Filthy Fluno: and be successful artists
[2007/11/26 18:41] Morris Vig: you do, Cheen?
[2007/11/26 18:41] Cheen Pitney: and he works for me
[2007/11/26 18:41] Cheen Pitney: yes
[2007/11/26 18:41] Morris Vig: had no idea
[2007/11/26 18:41] Cheen Pitney: folks find him and he brings them
[2007/11/26 18:42] Filthy Fluno: and if you can’t stick it out on your own, or find an agent… then just do SL for fun
[2007/11/26 18:42] Cheen Pitney: not for everyone of course
[2007/11/26 18:42] Gracie Kendal: I think it depends on where you show…in Rl….
[2007/11/26 18:42] Cheen Pitney: exactly thats why we all started
[2007/11/26 18:42] Cheen Pitney: and are still here … funn
[2007/11/26 18:42] Gracie Kendal: And who givves that nevative perception of self promotion???
[2007/11/26 18:42] Gracie Kendal: theelite galleries, saatchi,…etc
[2007/11/26 18:42] Morris Vig: Gracie, Xander’s question runs up your alley as you market pretty hard. How do you self-promote and keep a positive perception?
[2007/11/26 18:42] Filthy Fluno: gracie
[2007/11/26 18:43] Filthy Fluno: the people that make money off of selling your art
[2007/11/26 18:43] Filthy Fluno: that’s who
[2007/11/26 18:43] Amelie Dibou is Online
[2007/11/26 18:43] Gracie Kendal: Artnews magazine has an artists directory twice a year that you can put yoru own art in
[2007/11/26 18:43] Blue Tsuki is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:43] Filthy Fluno: great idea gracie
[2007/11/26 18:43] Filthy Fluno: not too expensive either
[2007/11/26 18:43] Morris Vig: Excellent call.
[2007/11/26 18:44] Gracie Kendal: well…I am just starting to promote myself in RL honestly..I have been goign to school so long…
[2007/11/26 18:44] Gracie Kendal: after this great reception here….I am workign on RL…
[2007/11/26 18:44] Gracie Kendal: but…its not the same…
[2007/11/26 18:44] Cheen Pitney: thats another way to succeess being mentioned in publications
[2007/11/26 18:44] Gracie Kendal: I have submitted to juried art competitions..and
[2007/11/26 18:44] Gracie Kendal: been rejected many times
[2007/11/26 18:44] Filthy Fluno: and not only to get published… you need to publicize your publicity!
[2007/11/26 18:44] Ludo Merit chuckles
[2007/11/26 18:45] Gracie Kendal: yes, absolutely…
[2007/11/26 18:45] Filthy Fluno: for example…
[2007/11/26 18:45] Gracie Kendal: which I am starrting to do…
[2007/11/26 18:45] Morris Vig: Scarp – You’re up. What’s on your mind?
[2007/11/26 18:46] Scarp Godenot: Yeah, what is a good size for a decent gallery, 512 seems too small….
[2007/11/26 18:46] Object: Isolde Flamand, say ‘/1 Hide’ to hide me, or ‘/1 Show’ to make me show. Or just right-click and sit on me to use me.
[2007/11/26 18:46] Morris Vig: what type of art, Scarp?
[2007/11/26 18:46] Filthy Fluno: well
[2007/11/26 18:46] Cheen Pitney: 2d its fine
[2007/11/26 18:46] Madcow Cosmos: I have a few pieces under 512 prims
[2007/11/26 18:46] Gracie Kendal: I think, honestly…getting in with a group gallery here is a good way to start
[2007/11/26 18:46] Morris Vig: lol MC
[2007/11/26 18:46] Cheen Pitney: yes
[2007/11/26 18:46] Gracie Kendal: Find out how the advertise
[2007/11/26 18:47] Gracie Kendal: what kind of events they have
[2007/11/26 18:47] Gracie Kendal: do they publicize in SL magazines..etc
[2007/11/26 18:47] Morris Vig: (or don’t have)
[2007/11/26 18:47] Filthy Fluno: heehee
[2007/11/26 18:47] Cheen Pitney: and dont be afraed to offer freebees
[2007/11/26 18:47] Gracie Kendal: yes..Morris
[2007/11/26 18:47] Gracie Kendal: Yes, give away yoru art….
[2007/11/26 18:47] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:47] Max Janick: worked for radiohead
[2007/11/26 18:47] Filthy Fluno: freebies?
[2007/11/26 18:47] Gracie Kendal: LOL true
[2007/11/26 18:47] Cheen Pitney: everyone who sees it might want one
[2007/11/26 18:47] Ludo Merit: Yeah, give away your art, Filthy
[2007/11/26 18:47] Cylindrian Rutabaga: freebies in exchange for what
[2007/11/26 18:47] Max Janick: publicity
[2007/11/26 18:48] Cylindrian Rutabaga: radiohead already is wellknown
[2007/11/26 18:48] Gracie Kendal: absolutely
[2007/11/26 18:48] Cylindrian Rutabaga: jo blow
[2007/11/26 18:48] Filthy Fluno: nope
[2007/11/26 18:48] Cylindrian Rutabaga: maybe not
[2007/11/26 18:48] Gracie Kendal: goes back to word of mouth
[2007/11/26 18:48] Max Janick: they are, but they paid no marketing costs for In Rainbows
[2007/11/26 18:48] Max Janick: yet they had more articles worldwide than anyone else that week
[2007/11/26 18:48] Gracie Kendal: I have people tell me all the time…my friend has a couple pieces…where is that for sale???
[2007/11/26 18:48] Gracie Kendal: I love that
[2007/11/26 18:48] Filthy Fluno: i have got feedback that…
[2007/11/26 18:49] Filthy Fluno: if its free? is it valuable?
[2007/11/26 18:49] Gracie Kendal: another thing we havent talked about is copies vs originals…
[2007/11/26 18:49] Cheen Pitney: well the prime stuff aint free
[2007/11/26 18:49] Filthy Fluno: let’s talk about the whole freebie thing though
[2007/11/26 18:49] Filthy Fluno: seriously
[2007/11/26 18:49] Gracie Kendal: very my art valuable..because I sell copies….
[2007/11/26 18:49] Gracie Kendal: ?
[2007/11/26 18:49] Kurisuti Kohime is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:49] Cheen Pitney: its like an appetizer
[2007/11/26 18:49] Cheen Pitney: you like this free one
[2007/11/26 18:50] Filthy Fluno: yes.. but what if someone is in LOVE with the free one
[2007/11/26 18:50] Cheen Pitney: wait till you see what you get for lindes
[2007/11/26 18:50] Filthy Fluno: and the expensive one sucks to them
[2007/11/26 18:50] Gracie Kendal: Ans will my new stuff be valuable if I start sellling limited editions?
[2007/11/26 18:50] Ludo Merit: Lucky art buyer
[2007/11/26 18:50] Madcow Cosmos: If peple want to carry around an advertizement for me I’m not one to complain
[2007/11/26 18:50] Filthy Fluno: lol
[2007/11/26 18:50] Cheen Pitney: as long as thy dont make babies hahaha
[2007/11/26 18:50] Filthy Fluno: what are they advertising i guess is imporatnt
[2007/11/26 18:50] Luthien Biziou is Online
[2007/11/26 18:51] Filthy Fluno: i used to do stuff for free in exchange for “promotions”
[2007/11/26 18:51] Filthy Fluno: and i’d say 90% of the time it didn’t work
[2007/11/26 18:51] Ludo Merit nods.
[2007/11/26 18:51] Morris Vig: huh – who knew?
[2007/11/26 18:51] Filthy Fluno: again… this SL art scene isn’t for everyone!
[2007/11/26 18:51] Richarrd Larsson is Offline
[2007/11/26 18:51] Morris Vig: Apologies to Alberto – apparently I didn’t get his IM. Must be the O.B. lag. Alberto – please go ahead….
[2007/11/26 18:51] Cheen Pitney: well you have a good one going now
[2007/11/26 18:51] Alberto Salomon: thanks, what do you think is more importqnt now, to import RL art into SL or th eother way round?
[2007/11/26 18:52] Morris Vig: can you do it the other way around?
[2007/11/26 18:52] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 18:52] Filthy Fluno: i do it
[2007/11/26 18:52] Cheen Pitney: well agaain its different for sculptors
[2007/11/26 18:52] Morris Vig: good point Cheen
[2007/11/26 18:52] Cheen Pitney: we are here and here only…mostly
[2007/11/26 18:52] Cheen Pitney: check my blog lol
[2007/11/26 18:52] Madcow Cosmos: Stupid RL gravity is always getting me down
[2007/11/26 18:52] Filthy Fluno: i make art about SL stuff.. import it into SL.. then export it into RL
[2007/11/26 18:52] Morris Vig: URL, please, Cheen?
[2007/11/26 18:52] Morris Vig: lol MC.
[2007/11/26 18:53] You: they have CNC machines that can replicate sculptures from virtual worlds.
[2007/11/26 18:53] Gracie Kendal: yea, but thats different Filthy
[2007/11/26 18:53] Gracie Kendal: because its still RL work
[2007/11/26 18:53] Cheen Pitney: in my profile
[2007/11/26 18:53] Filthy Fluno: its RL but would not exist without SL
[2007/11/26 18:53] Gracie Kendal: I have used SL images in my collages….
[2007/11/26 18:53] Gracie Kendal: but..they would exist a different way otherwise
[2007/11/26 18:53] Cheen Pitney: I urge you to check out Filthys method
[2007/11/26 18:53] Cheen Pitney: very cool
[2007/11/26 18:53] Gracie Kendal: they woudl still exxist tho
[2007/11/26 18:54] Filthy Fluno: gracie.. i totally disagree with that my friend
[2007/11/26 18:54] Filthy Fluno: it would be something else
[2007/11/26 18:54] Gracie Kendal: Well, I did say that…but yo woudl just have other inspiraation
[2007/11/26 18:54] Gracie Kendal: geesh..typo lag
[2007/11/26 18:55] Filthy Fluno: i’m not laggin… i’m just a little hopped up on the tequila
[2007/11/26 18:55] Filthy Fluno: weeeeeee!
[2007/11/26 18:55] Filthy Fluno: oh! and another very important thing
[2007/11/26 18:55] Filthy Fluno: don’t take stuff TOOOO seriously in here
[2007/11/26 18:55] You decline MMAC – THE JAZZ LINK – Lobby Entry from A group member named Dash Renoir.
[2007/11/26 18:55] Filthy Fluno: i mean
[2007/11/26 18:55] Filthy Fluno: a sense of humor and giving people the benefit of the doubt is crucial sometimes
[2007/11/26 18:55] Filthy Fluno: like that dude that was here earlier
[2007/11/26 18:55] Cheen Pitney: I agree
[2007/11/26 18:55] Filthy Fluno: metalmouth
[2007/11/26 18:56] Filthy Fluno: is he still here?
[2007/11/26 18:56] Cheen Pitney: hes madcows cousin
[2007/11/26 18:56] Gracie Kendal: lol
[2007/11/26 18:56] Cheen Pitney: hahaha
[2007/11/26 18:56] Madcow Cosmos: SL it just another media I don’t know how important it is to translate things between different one. Do we really need to dance about every painting? Importing and exporting art is great as long as it meetsa need to do so
[2007/11/26 18:56] Salandras Adamant is Online
[2007/11/26 18:56] Morris Vig: agreed, MC…’s the beauty and creativity of art.
[2007/11/26 18:56] Filthy Fluno: i don’t agree with that
[2007/11/26 18:57] Filthy Fluno: SL is not just another media
[2007/11/26 18:57] Filthy Fluno: it has millions of people in here
[2007/11/26 18:57] Filthy Fluno: interacting
[2007/11/26 18:57] Gracie Kendal: It Absolutely is

(i ended up crashing right here– i apologize for any missed information)

[2007/11/26 18:59] Cheen Pitney: from all over the world
[2007/11/26 18:59] Morris Vig: Let’s open up the floor one last time. We’ve got a wonderful panel, and they’re interesting in answering your questions and providing insight. Don’t miss the opportunty!
[2007/11/26 18:59] Morris Vig: Let’s try this
[2007/11/26 18:59] Cheen Pitney: MC has gone turtle
[2007/11/26 18:59] Terje Chengpang: thank you all for putting this together!
[2007/11/26 18:59] Gracie Kendal: Your very welcome
[2007/11/26 19:00] Gracie Kendal: I will say one thing…..
[2007/11/26 19:00] Gracie Kendal: Success in Sl is about working together…
[2007/11/26 19:00] Morris Vig: If you had 1 suggestion to leave people with to be “more successful” in SL art – what would it be?
[2007/11/26 19:00] Morris Vig: there ya go, G
[2007/11/26 19:00] Thinkerer Melville is Offline
[2007/11/26 19:00] Gracie Kendal: Collaboration amngst the gallerys….
[2007/11/26 19:00] Paddy Bracken is Online
[2007/11/26 19:00] Thinkerer Melville is Online
[2007/11/26 19:00] Gracie Kendal: amongst the artists…
[2007/11/26 19:00] Gracie Kendal: and the patrons
[2007/11/26 19:00] Gracie Kendal: thats what makes Sl successful..and hopefully will contnue to do so
[2007/11/26 19:00] Filthy Fluno: i’d say make the best art you know how and never shutup about it
[2007/11/26 19:01] Morris Vig: great point
[2007/11/26 19:01] Morris Vig: Cheen, got a pointer?
[2007/11/26 19:01] Filthy Fluno: maybe that’s two things
[2007/11/26 19:01] Cheen Pitney: id say enjoy what you are doing
[2007/11/26 19:01] Scarp Godenot: So is it more important to put your gallery in a sim with other artists do you think?
[2007/11/26 19:01] Filthy Fluno: ha!
[2007/11/26 19:01] Filthy Fluno: what up brian
[2007/11/26 19:01] Cheen Pitney: and if you make linden more power ti ]o ya
[2007/11/26 19:01] Madcow Cosmos: Darn crashed before I could hear filthy’s response
[2007/11/26 19:01] Filthy Fluno: madcow
[2007/11/26 19:01] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 19:02] Filthy Fluno: i said just keep your eye on the prize… make the best art you can and don’t shutup about it
[2007/11/26 19:02] Morris Vig: got an anonymous question from the gallery: just how do you 4 define “art” in SL?
[2007/11/26 19:02] Gracie Kendal: LOL
[2007/11/26 19:02] Morris Vig: yeah, leave the softballs for last
[2007/11/26 19:02] Gracie Kendal: There are so many answers to that
[2007/11/26 19:02] Gracie Kendal: Sl is a piece of art in itself
[2007/11/26 19:02] Madcow Cosmos: Art to me is any creation proccess that couldn’t be defined as craftsmanship alone.
[2007/11/26 19:03] Ina Centaur is Offline
[2007/11/26 19:03] Gracie Kendal: You cant even say that anymore Madcow
[2007/11/26 19:03] Morris Vig: so RL…SL….doesn’t matter, MC?
[2007/11/26 19:03] Cheen Pitney: yes its all art here
[2007/11/26 19:03] Filthy Fluno: art makes me feel different than i did before i seen it
[2007/11/26 19:03] Gracie Kendal: Its much more
[2007/11/26 19:03] Filthy Fluno: in RL and SL
[2007/11/26 19:03] Havente Waydelich is Online
[2007/11/26 19:04] Ina Centaur is Online
[2007/11/26 19:04] Morris Vig: good points all
[2007/11/26 19:04] Madcow Cosmos: RL SL are part of the same same picture
[2007/11/26 19:04] Gail Kilara is Offline
[2007/11/26 19:04] Gracie Kendal: Yes, for me too
[2007/11/26 19:04] Gracie Kendal: I don’t hide who aiI am
[2007/11/26 19:05] Morris Vig: ….and I had budgeted an hour, more or less. Looks like we reached that point. Let’s all show our panelists our appreciation!
[2007/11/26 19:05] Cheen Pitney: thanks for coming folks
[2007/11/26 19:05] Terje Chengpang: wootz!
[2007/11/26 19:05] Sunn Thunders: claps…
[2007/11/26 19:05] Morris Vig: yes, thank you…
[2007/11/26 19:05] Sabine Stonebender rang Sabine Stonebender’s Bell!
[2007/11/26 19:05] Gracie Kendal: Thank you very much fir listening to our ranting …hehe
[2007/11/26 19:05] You: hooray!
[2007/11/26 19:05] Cheen Pitney: hahah
[2007/11/26 19:05] Jordan Morgenrote: thanks u guys!
[2007/11/26 19:05] PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: thank thank thank you!!!
[2007/11/26 19:05] Filthy Fluno: i say.. thank you Morris
[2007/11/26 19:05] Scarp Godenot: Let me ask again: do you think it is important to form gallery districts in the same sim or can you successfully locate anywhere?
[2007/11/26 19:05] Corcosman Voom: Thank you all very much!!!
[2007/11/26 19:05] Madcow Cosmos: Thanks for coming all
[2007/11/26 19:05] Callipygian Christensen: thanks panelists
[2007/11/26 19:05] Cheen Pitney: many of you could have been up here
[2007/11/26 19:05] Filthy Fluno: THANK YOU MORRIS!
[2007/11/26 19:05] Filthy Fluno: THANK YOU MORRIS
[2007/11/26 19:05] Morris Vig: In wrapping up, let me share a thought about success from my point of view. I’m all about bringing people together. Whether its an event, a Christmas Tree, or an ArtTalk, it’s enjoyable. So, for that, I thank you all for coming. This event, and the dialogue generated, is a success in my mind. Enjoy your evening!
[2007/11/26 19:06] IanLee Patton: hoora
[2007/11/26 19:06] Filthy Fluno: morris
[2007/11/26 19:06] Gracie Kendal: Perfect Morris :))
[2007/11/26 19:06] Terje Chengpang: rock on SL artists!
[2007/11/26 19:06] Filthy Fluno: where can we get the transcript
[2007/11/26 19:06] Cheen Pitney: thanks Morris
[2007/11/26 19:06] Filthy Fluno: for people who couldn’t make it
[2007/11/26 19:06] Morris Vig: I’ll post it on my blog
[2007/11/26 19:06] Morris Vig:
[2007/11/26 19:06] Delia Lake: thank you Morris
[2007/11/26 19:06] Alberto Salomon: great, Morris !!!
[2007/11/26 19:06] Gracie Kendal: Scarp, you can Im us..and we can maybe answer that
[2007/11/26 19:07] Gracie Kendal: or give you our opinion
[2007/11/26 19:07] Morris Vig: Scrap, I’ve got some notions on that
[2007/11/26 19:07] Morris Vig: I think that there’s value in clustering together
[2007/11/26 19:07] Morris Vig: partnering, if you will
[2007/11/26 19:07] Scarp Godenot: Thanks I will
[2007/11/26 19:07] Gracie Kendal: Absolutely
[2007/11/26 19:07] Morris Vig: Look at this place….it’s a bit of a hub. But so is Xander’s place…or Diegoland’s collective.
[2007/11/26 19:08] Filthy Fluno: cheen
[2007/11/26 19:08] Morris Vig: Lots of art, lots to see…
[2007/11/26 19:08] Filthy Fluno: where you from?
[2007/11/26 19:08] Gracie Kendal: yea..Artropolis
[2007/11/26 19:08] Cheen Pitney: Im in the Canadian Rockies
[2007/11/26 19:08] Corcosman Voom: They are attractions for viewers
[2007/11/26 19:08] Madcow Cosmos: Vast stretches of of strip malls punctuated by galleries
[2007/11/26 19:08] Cheen Pitney: col d here hahaha
[2007/11/26 19:08] Filthy Fluno: would your agent be interested in new artists you think?
[2007/11/26 19:09] Filthy Fluno: i’m always lookin
[2007/11/26 19:09] Filthy Fluno: haven’t found one i’ve liked
[2007/11/26 19:09] Morris Vig wonders why the pier dropped 1/2m.
[2007/11/26 19:09] Filthy Fluno: morris
[2007/11/26 19:09] Cheen Pitney: hmmm I will ask but its sculpture he deals in
[2007/11/26 19:09] Filthy Fluno: that would be my fat ass dropping the dock
[2007/11/26 19:09] Alizarin Goldflake: oh dont ask why ..
[2007/11/26 19:09] Madcow Cosmos: Sorry Morris my avatars load will do that
[2007/11/26 19:09] Cheen Pitney: thanks
[2007/11/26 19:09] Filthy Fluno: oh ok
[2007/11/26 19:09] Cheen Pitney: Gracie
[2007/11/26 19:09] Corcosman Voom: Good turnout tonight, Morris
[2007/11/26 19:09] Filthy Fluno: perhaps he knows another agent
[2007/11/26 19:09] Cheen Pitney: but ya never know
[2007/11/26 19:09] Gracie Kendal: Thx Ceen 🙂
[2007/11/26 19:09] Morris Vig: lol filthy


The Cannery Artist Agreement, continued.

November 10, 2007

Well, it seems as though my last blog caused a bit of controversy in the art world of Second Life… namely with the Cannery gallery and their artist agreement, which is apparently undergoing some rewording and changing around.

I just want to make one thing clear: I don’t have anything against the Cannery, or any of its affiliates, employees, curators or whathaveyou. I was given their artist agreement by a friend, and I thought it to be a prime example of what artists should look for when reading through an artist agreement that a gallery provides. I was in no way, shape or form trying to slander anyone’s name or organization– I was doing what I exist in this world to do, and that is to help artists protect themselves and their work by raising awareness.

Recently, Vint Falken wrote a response to my breakdown of the Cannery’s artist agreement, and I’m going to take this time to defend myself so as to clarify my position on the whole matter:

“Cyanide Seelowe says the old artist agreement is an unfair one, especially compared to First Life artist agreements. I disagree, as – something that all should have learned by now – Second Life is not First Life:

Wait wait… I never once said that the Cannery’s artist agreement was “an unfair one, especially compared to First Life agreements.” I didn’t even make any references to First life artist agreements in the article… I kept my attention focused solely on the agreement at hand. Second Life is not First Life, this is true– but this does not mean that artists should not be aware of what terms and agreements they are getting themselves into when submitting their work to a gallery. Copyrights are still copyrights, no matter which life you are dealing with.

… you should never give full perm textures… blablabla‘ – If we really wanted to steal it, we could just as well have pressed ‘print screen’ on 512×512 textures, no?

Grossly misquoted, but a valid point. In fact, Rightasrain Rimbaud (proprietor of the Cannery) made an insightful comment on the blog that I think every artist should consider: “I don’t agree that artists should ‘never ever give away rights’. You have to give to get! It is more a question of what you get in return. We are propsing, promotion, some sales and exposure in SL/Web. People need to decide if it is worth it.” I STILL think artists should be wary about giving full perm work to people they do not know… but this is just one person’s opinion. I do not doubt the Cannery’s honesty, as they have given me no reason to, but artists STILL need to be aware that this is one of the easiest ways for dishonest people to steal your intellectual property, and it should not be common practice in Second Life.

… do not email the work…‘ – Well, then Shoshana could not have made the book.

Decent compensation, I suppose. Unfortunately, it was not mentioned in the original agreement, and so artists would not be initially aware of why, exactly, they’d be sending their works to someone they do not know via email– you can understand why that would sound a little fishy to an outside artist. Also, it should be clarified who will be getting the proceeds from the books being sold– are the artists featured in the book getting a cut of the profits, or is it just for the sake of having their works published? Either way is fine, but a little clarification would be nice.

‘... complaining about the 25% the artists receive from the show’s total proceeds…‘ – Real life photographs & stuff sell – in galleries – at USD 100 each at least. Our photographs sold at USD 1.50 each. Yet, the time invested was still enormous. Believe me, nobody is getting rich out of this.

It’s no secret that using the Second Life art scene to get rich would be a questionable endeavor at best. I understand that we all have tiers to pay and events to host– Rightasrain Rimbaud explained that, “our idea on 25% is that we have a lot of costs to run a show and our estimate is that 25% is about half of the profits, so is meant to be an equal share.” Again, clarification is key, and it sounds like the Cannery is taking steps to provide that clarification in their new artist agreement.

… it’s unfair that artists who sold less get an even share of the money…‘ – It is fair, if they did not like that idea, they should not have participated. To sell the largest amount of photographs in Second Life: become a virtual pr0n photographer. We wanted to make sure that artists with beautiful yet less commercial – less nude – photographs would get rewarded too.

Once again, grossly misquoted. I actually said “This means that artists who did not sell any works will still be getting a portion of the 25% artist cut made from the show. If your works sell, and someone else’s didn’t, the artist who did not sell any works in the show will be getting a portion of the money that YOUR work earned.” I do agree with Vint in that if the artist does not like that idea, then they should not participate in the Cannery’s shows– this is why my article encourages artists to thoroughly read through artist agreements and make assessments for themselves. I also commend the Cannery’s dedication to encouraging more varied subject matter in SL photography– this is something that’s sorely needed in our art community.

… on eligable and distribution of proceeds…‘ – Start complaining about that when you have proof we do not pay. Until then, do something constructive, please.

Vint and I obviously have different definitions and/or concepts of the words “complaining” and “constructive”. I never once in my article stated that the Cannery is dishonest in any way, nor did I accuse them of not paying their artists. In fact, it sounds like they have a very satisfied group of artists that show their work in their establishment. As far as being constructive goes: it is in my humble opinion that my criticisms of the original Cannery artist agreement were quite constructive; so much so, that they are considering changing and/or rewording some parts. This strengthens my respect for the Cannery and its proprietors, because it means that they actually care about what artists in the community think!

Your artworks may be used for any promotional materials regarding the show they are in, and you will not be paid for it.‘ – Duh! Promotional means we’re not selling it. Else it would be merchandise and the artists would get their share. Promotional means to promote the show. Which benefits the sales of artwork and merchandise, which benefits the artists.

“Duh” indeed! This is common practice in galleries from both lives– not everyone out there is aware that promotional materials used for galleries are unpaid representations of their artworks, because Second Life may be their first venture into any form of professional artistry. It is within every right the Cannery has to do this, and I encourage artists to embrace this type of promotion, because you don’t have to pay for it (free publicity is always a plus!) Again, my article was written to inform, not to slander.

The gallery can use the representation of your works in future promotional materials that have nothing to do with the show that your work is in. You will not be paid for this, either.‘ – Otherwise Rezzable could not even show off posters of the past show without having to repay the artist? Sure you never saw this one appear in real life artist agreements?

Actually, I have. Again, this is within the Cannery’s rights as a gallery, and I highly recommend this to my fellow artists because, again, it’s free publicity.

I’d like to take a moment to apologize if my previous article had a hostile or angry tone to it. That was not my intention, and my goal was to make it as constructive as humanly possible for the benefit of both the Cannery and any artists who would consider showing their works there. That’s fine if you don’t agree with me– in fact, if you do disagree, I can only assume that you actually read through the agreement and compared your own assessment with my own, which is what I was trying to encourage in the first place.

To conclude, I only have one thing to say to the Cannery: Rezz on, my brothers, rezz on.


    Never *EVER* Give Away Rights to your Work!!!

    November 3, 2007

    Copyrights in Second Life are a fickle thing, but can be easily managed by the magical “permissions” buttons at the bottom of your edit screen. Most artists in Second Life are aware of this– dare I say even paranoid about it– but when it comes to intellectual property, paranoia is sometimes a good thing. Please keep your radar up at all times, and remember to READ THROUGH ANY ARTIST AGREEMENTS ANY GALLERY HAS SET UP!

    A fine example of why you should read the fine print was recently brought to my attention by the lovely Sasun Steinbeck, who has proven herself to be one of the sexier living “RSS feeds” for the Second Life art community :D. To save you the trouble, I’ll run you through the “Cannery show artist agreement (02 Nov 07) + conversation” and show you what you’ll need to look out for when reading through artist agreements :

    Rezzable Productions LTD presents
    A Cannery Gallery Art Show

    <<Artist Agreement>>
    This Artist Agreement is entered into by the Artist by submitting digital artwork and/or photographs (“Artwork”) from his/her avatar to Rezzable owned avatar Tate Watanabe

    This means that the moment you submit your work to the curator of the gallery, you are bound by this artist agreement.

    *Format for materials*

    –Artists will need to submit files in size 512 x 512 pixels with full permissions.


    –Artist will also be asked for original digital versions of Artwork to be submitted via email (may not be necessary)

    Again: NO NO NO!!! This will give someone the opportunity to alter, change, or otherwise take credit for your works in your First Life as well! FULL PERMISSIONS ARE NEVER NECESSARY, NO MATTER WHICH LIFE YOU ARE DEALING WITH!

    –Artwork which is not square should be centred on the 512 x 512 pixel canvas with either 100% white or 100% black matting (spacers). (Art can now be 1024 x 512)

    *Artist requirements*
    1) You will be asked to host at least one class or meet-the-artist event.
    2) You are invited to the Wednesday dances. They are held at the Cannery dance floor from noon to midnight, SL time.
    3) You are encouraged to ask your friends to come visit the event, to vote for their favorite pieces, and to buy stuff. This is **not** a requirement. All art is for sale, and you will get a portion of it!
    4) In addition to the picture(s) you are submitting for the show, you are asked to submit a self-portrait. These portraits will NOT be sold, although they may be used for promotional purposes. (They may also be on trading cards, found throughout the sim.)
    5) Please submit an artist statement. It should be at least a paragraph and as long as you wish. It should be submitted on a notecard.


    Artist will be eligible to receive a portion of 25% of show actual Proceeds derived from merchandise and sponsorship.

    Artists will recieve a portion of 25% of the show’s total proceeds. The other 75% will be pocketed by the owners of the gallery. There are plenty of galleries in Second Life that take no more than 25% commission on each individual work sold, if they take commission at all. Furthermore, you are only “eligible” for the money, as opposed to being “entitled” to it– this means that they could come up with any excuse to not give you your money.

    Proceeds will be divided amongst individual photographers based on the number of photographs the individual photographer has in show and the total number of photographs in the show.

    This means that artists who did not sell any works will still be getting a portion of the 25% artist cut made from the show. If your works sell, and someone else’s didn’t, the artist who did not sell any works in the show will be getting a portion of the money that YOUR work earned.

    All distributions of Proceeds are at the discretion of Rezzable Productions Ltd.

    You are officially not in control of any of the money that your artwork has earned. Period.
    All Show participants will also be entered into a contest to win additional prizes at the discretion of Rezzable Productions Ltd.

    *Artist Release*

    With respect to the submitted Artwork, I hereby represent that I am the copyright owner of the artwork and have right for any and all images that appears in the photograph. I hereby grant to Rezzable Productions, its affiliates and licensees, the following worldwide, irrevocable rights:

    (1) to use the Artwork without cost for the purpose of presenting and promoting the Show

    Your artworks may be used for any promotional materials regarding the show they are in, and you will not be paid for it.

    (2) to use and re-use, publish and re-publish the Artwork, in whole or in part, individually or in conjunction with printed matter, or in composite form, and in any medium, for editorial, commercial, promotional, and/or trade purposes associated with the Cannery Art Gallery Show and/or Rezzable Productions Ltd. I hereby waive any right to inspect or approve any copy that is used in connection with the photograph and release and discharge the Rezzable Productions Ltd., its affiliates and licensees from any and all claims arising out of use by Rezzable Productions Ltd., its affiliates and licensees, of the photograph for the purposes described above, including any claims for libel, invasion of privacy or breach of copyright.

    The gallery can use the representation of your works in future promotional materials that have nothing to do with the show that your work is in. You will not be paid for this, either.

    No Authority to Bind. It is expressly understood and agreed that the Consultant shall have no right or authority at any time to make any contract or binding promise of any nature on behalf of the Company, whether oral or written, without the express written consent of the Company.

    Applicable Law. This Agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the England. The parties hereby submit to the non-exclusive jurisdiction of the English courts.

    Your works are now governed by the copyright laws of England, no matter where in the world you live. You can read up about England’s copyright laws here.

    I am over the age of eighteen. I have read the foregoing and fully understand its contents.

    You HAVE read through the artist agreement, right? Fine print and all? Reading through agreements like this is the FIRST and EASIEST step to protecting your intellectual property!It only takes a few minutes to thoroughly read through a document like this, so do yourself a favor!

    After submission of Artwork you will be sent and email asking for confirmation of acceptance of these terms and conditions.
    Let’s keep honest people honest and not put them in a situation where they could easily steal or take credit for your intellectual property.


    November, Haiku Builds and other interesting things!

    November 2, 2007

    Finally, November is here! With it comes the official “Holiday Season”, cold weather, and sudden violent cravings for gingerbread flavoring in my evening coffee– it’s gonna be a good season!

    So far, in November…

    1.) The voting process of the Best of SL Art 2007 is now officially over. Votes will be tallied and the top 10 or 15 artists as deemed by the community votes will be interviewed through the month of November— more news on this once I sit and have a word with Enniv!

    2.) Our first-ever Haiku Build! A special thanks to the Shin Tao Haiku Retreat for co-sponsoring the event, and holding the contest that provided us with the theme haiku poem, written by Wata Klata:

    Leaving the ruins:

    I stub my toe on a vase

    Buried under leaves.

    This event marked the beginning of November events for the VAA with a grand total of three builders and a fun group of spectators fluxing in and out. Extremely successful for our very first Haiku Build, I think!

    Pictures, you ask? But of course:

    First Place-Rezago Kokorin:

    2nd Place- Madcow Cosmos:

    3rd Place- Neo Draken:


    Tekkon Kinkreet. In a flash-bang moment of “Holy crap I need some me time or I’ll explode.” that everyone should have every once in a while, I decided to sit down, shut up and watch a movie. This came in the mail from Netflix today, and happened to be the closest thing to the DVD player at the time. From a technical point of view, the animation is a delight to behold- clean a professional, and just sketchy enough to inform you that the animators did, in fact, have a good time making this movie. The story is not for the casual movie watcher– you’ll have to use your brain to really grasp this tale of friendship, completion and apple trees. Rent it, put it on your Netflix Queue, do whatever it takes to watch this movie. Love it or hate it, it needs to be on your “seen it” list.